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Author Topic: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.  (Read 7289 times)

CeeVee

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2017, 06:06:50 AM »

Maybe it's time to revive the Kodak Pro Prophoto-CD format. You could get 3 or 4 sizes from one scan and converting to B&W is trivial.

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saiguy

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2017, 05:56:51 PM »

CeeVee, Well this thread is getting old by now. I started the scan project. There are about 9k Kodachrome slides. Have batch raw scanned 1230 of them to SF8-HDR so far. Am using 5X7 out put scaling.

The B&W thing was really a question about scans from B&W prints or from off set print originals.
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CeeVee

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2017, 08:06:52 PM »

CeeVee, Well this thread is getting old by now. I started the scan project. There are about 9k Kodachrome slides. Have batch raw scanned 1230 of them to SF8-HDR so far. Am using 5X7 out put scaling.

The B&W thing was really a question about scans from B&W prints or from off set print originals.
Offset print originals?
I'd scan prints on a flatbed (we have Epson 750) and the chromes on a film scanner. I've used Nikon 9000 and Hasselblad X-5.
If you're really scanning copies off an offset press you'll be dealing with de-screening. Lots O' fun.

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2017, 09:04:07 PM »

.................
If you're really scanning copies off an offset press you'll be dealing with de-screening. Lots O' fun.
..............

Not really too much of a problem. SilverFast has a de-screening tool that can work pretty well with carefully chosen settings, the objective being to achieve the optimum possible balance between image detail and de-screening. (This is covered in Section 6.6 of my book.) 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Garnick

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2017, 08:03:56 AM »

Not really too much of a problem. SilverFast has a de-screening tool that can work pretty well with carefully chosen settings, the objective being to achieve the optimum possible balance between image detail and de-screening. (This is covered in Section 6.6 of my book.)

Yes, the de-screening tool does work pretty well, with a bit of tweaking and patience.  Another approach, and perhaps better in some cases, is the FFT Filter used in Photoshop or perhaps other apps.  This is the "Frequency Separation" filter that can fix a number of issues, including screening.  I've also used it to subdue the Moire effect and it does a great job.  it can also be used when retouching certain skin problems with portrait work.  I've seen it demonstrated, but haven't had need to use for that application myself.  Google "FFT Filter" and you'll get all the information you need concerning this filter and how to download it as a plugin for Photoshop.

Another very useful application for this filter is when restoring old B&W prints on the ubiquitous pebble textured paper, which is almost impossible to fix otherwise.  With a bit of finessing, the FFT Filter will do a great job in such situations.  You will also find examples of that on Google.

Gary       
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:36:16 AM by Garnick »
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LuLa - The source of ALL! -- "There's nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" -- Ansel Adams
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saiguy

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2017, 12:39:09 PM »

De-screening. SF8 did a great job. The Auto did not work well. Sometimes guessing a line screen of 24. The paper stock was pretty good. Definitely a coated paper. I used the line screen of 175 and softness of 2, maybe even 1. I doubt it was actually printed with line screen of 175, but that is what looked best.

FFT Filter. Sounds interesting especially with "pebble paper". Will look into that.

thanks,
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saiguy

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2017, 09:54:30 PM »

Garnick, 

Been looking at some videos on the FFT Filter. All of them a quite dated. Can the tool be gotten and used on current PS Submission Plan. Where would I look to get it?

Andy Anderson has a DVD on Infinite Skills where he shows to scan a paper textured photo 4 times rotating it 90 degrees each time and using a blending mode that works well. Photo Restoration With Photoshop. Has more to do with how the light bounces off the texture than the pattern itself. But this FFT looks much better.

Thanks for the "new discovery" Hope the plug in is still available.
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TonyW

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2017, 05:31:44 AM »

The Fast Fourier Transform (FFT and IFFT) that most of us used was probably the one published by Alex Chirokov as a PS plugin.  I believe itís original photographic use in Forensics. 

You are aware that Silverfast uses their own version of FFT for descreening?

That filter does not seem to be freely available/supported any longer although it will work with the new versions of PS.  It also had a drawback of file size limitations also if you are a Mac user you are out of luck

I would suggest that you have a look at a program called ImageJ available Windows and Mac.  This is a stand-alone app only so once finished you will need to bring the result into PS
https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 05:50:15 AM by TonyW »
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2017, 08:27:41 AM »

The Fast Fourier Transform (FFT and IFFT) that most of us used was probably the one published by Alex Chirokov as a PS plugin.  I believe itís original photographic use in Forensics. 

You are aware that Silverfast uses their own version of FFT for descreening?

That filter does not seem to be freely available/supported any longer although it will work with the new versions of PS.  It also had a drawback of file size limitations also if you are a Mac user you are out of luck

I would suggest that you have a look at a program called ImageJ available Windows and Mac.  This is a stand-alone app only so once finished you will need to bring the result into PS
https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html

FWIW Affinity Photo also has built-in FFT denoise capabilities. Although it can work very very well, there can still be some issues (mostly due to input image quality) with some images.

They also have a tutorial that demonstrates the functionality:
https://vimeo.com/161180581

Cheers,
Bart
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TonyW

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2017, 10:47:18 AM »

FWIW Affinity Photo also has built-in FFT denoise capabilities. Although it can work very very well, there can still be some issues (mostly due to input image quality) with some images.

They also have a tutorial that demonstrates the functionality:
https://vimeo.com/161180581

Cheers,
Bart
That interesting Bart and looks to be a nice implementation of FFT.  Showing the results of automatic application of IFFT in live mode looks pretty good too.
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Garnick

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2017, 11:33:21 AM »

Garnick, 

Been looking at some videos on the FFT Filter. All of them a quite dated. Can the tool be gotten and used on current PS Submission Plan. Where would I look to get it?

Andy Anderson has a DVD on Infinite Skills where he shows to scan a paper textured photo 4 times rotating it 90 degrees each time and using a blending mode that works well. Photo Restoration With Photoshop. Has more to do with how the light bounces off the texture than the pattern itself. But this FFT looks much better.

Thanks for the "new discovery" Hope the plug in is still available.

Are you on Mac or Windows?  I can send the Mac version if you want to try it.  It will work on almost any version of PS as a Plugin.  This is the original download site - http://www.djjoofa.com/download, but they are no longer supporting FFT.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 12:05:39 PM by Garnick »
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LuLa - The source of ALL! -- "There's nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" -- Ansel Adams
Even though a big part of my life has been spent dealing with negatives, they generally end up being positives -- gan

saiguy

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2017, 09:53:21 AM »

Garnick,

Thanks for the offer to send me Mac FFT. Will test a textured photo scan with SilverFast De-screening first.

Affinity Photo videos were very impressive.
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Scan B&W photos/negs at 600 ppi. Is this best practice.
« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2017, 10:41:52 AM »

Affinity Photo videos were very impressive.

Yes, their implementation of a well-known solution toward the removal of raster (or other repetitive) patterns, is quite nice (with adjustable preview). Most of the controls and functions are very well implemented, and it helps that AP works with floating point precision and makes use of GPU processing for many of its internal operations.

It also works on selections, so one could, for instance, select bright regions like sky and cloud, or shadow regions, or colors, or subjects, and optimize the "denoising" for those specific areas of interest. It also handles different raster frequencies or rotations by individual color channel, so one does have a reasonable chance to fill in the blanks (even in problem cases).

Cheers,
Bart
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