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Author Topic: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?  (Read 5727 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2017, 09:34:02 AM »

Digital BW cameras still look like digital, unlike film.
What 'look' would that be? Some examples perhaps.
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Andrew Rodney
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john beardsworth

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2017, 09:58:10 AM »

your "eye" ain't gonna be one iota better than ever it was.

But it does change it, at least with mirrorless cameras. After all, you compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what you see might be expected to influence your composition. That said, I wouldn't want a camera that only took B&W raw files (or spend as much as people do on the Leica).

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2017, 10:03:48 AM »

After all, you compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what you see might be expected to influence your composition.
For some, if they let it influence them.
I have to wonder what Adams saw viewing his ground glass while composing PRIOR to a crop. Wait, I do know what he saw: color.  :o
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 11:08:58 AM »

Ansel used coloured lens filters and wrote about choosing between them based on how different tonal relationships influenced his composition. He only wrote x books on the topic.....

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 11:52:42 AM »

Ansel used coloured lens filters and wrote about choosing between them based on how different tonal relationships influenced his composition. He only wrote x books on the topic.....
More evidence that dismisses your ideas. He absolutely did not see a monochrome**  preview through his view camera. And it didn't appear to cause grief composing. Sorry that causes you issues but don't lay that inability on everyone here!
Have you ever viewed a B&W (say Red) filter on a view camera? Some of us have. Don't make me dig up my Sinar P to show you......
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**After all, you compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what you see might be expected to influence your composition.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 11:56:35 AM by digitaldog »
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Andrew Rodney
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john beardsworth

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 12:09:30 PM »

Yes, Andrew, I do have 20+ years of using a range of coloured filters on 10x8, MF and 35mm cameras. Whether it's true monochrome as one gets in an EVF, or the near-monochromes seen through a coloured filter, you see the relationship between different tonal areas and that influences how you may compose.

As usual, all you want is an argument. FFS. Go play with yourself....

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 12:40:17 PM »

Yes, Andrew, I do have 20+ years of using a range of coloured filters on 10x8, MF and 35mm cameras
That's all?  ;D  Yet you tell us YOU have difficulty composing your images. I have zero reason to doubt your inability to do so and accept that as a fact. That's not a universal problem for all photographers! Not those of us classically trained, those of us that shoot professionally (like national ads and such) in B&W or color on large format on down (for me that includes 8x10 film).
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As usual, all you want is an argument.

The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument. Your idea about composition and B&W was simply called out as a limitation of your own!
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Søren Kierkegaard

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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 01:47:58 PM »

Andrew, you're just making an argument. Go away, go have a good play with yourself.

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2017, 01:59:28 PM »

Andrew, you're just making an argument. Go away, go have a good play with yourself.
No argument; we are in violent agreement about your self admitted difficulties in composing a photograph. We disagree this affects all photographers. Simple as that.
I could suggest you go away and play with composing an image but I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.  :(
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2017, 02:12:21 PM »

I can only speak for myself. If I’m using b&w film I know the images will be in monochrome and so I see through the viewfinder accordingly (which is to say, differently). I’ve even put my little GX8 in mono mode and shot JPEG-only in order to put myself in mono mode.  ;)  It works, but the GX8 produces mediocre JPEGs, leaving me with decently seen pics featuring meh tonality and limited adjustment latitude.

Maybe this is evidence of psychological or even emotional deficiency on my part. Whatever…you can think what you like about it, if anything at all. I’m *un-offendable.  :)

-Dave-

*A useful quality to have IMO in this Age of Outrage. Just observe this very thread.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2017, 02:17:42 PM »

Andy Pandy, adjusting one's composition based on a B&W image dsplayed in the viewfinder is not to "admit difficulties" on my behalf or any other B&W photographer's. That's just you being your aggressive self, isn't it? What I wrote to Rob was not controversial, and it's sad that yet again you have derailed a thread. Can you not get help?

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2017, 02:34:55 PM »

Andy Pandy, adjusting one's composition based on a B&W image dsplayed in the viewfinder is not to "admit difficulties" on my behalf or any other B&W photographer's.
That's just you being your aggressive self, isn't it?
Back to your original text: After all, you compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what you see might be expected to influence your composition.
Should probably be: After all, I compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what I see might be expected to influence MY composition.
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What I wrote to Rob was not controversial, and it's sad that yet again you have derailed a thread. Can you not get help?
Controversial no, kind of silly, lumping every photographer into a camp that doesn't affect them all, yes.
Derailed is your term for someone who doesn't suffer your issues composing an image, and stating that fact on a forum?
In terms of your difficulties composing an image in B&W or otherwise, can you not get help?  :o
Like Telecaster, you should only speak for yourself.
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Andrew Rodney
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2017, 02:35:24 PM »

...Can you not get help?
Help is at hand...

But seriously, can't you both move on from this silliness? Do I really have to shut this down?

Chris
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Christopher Sanderson
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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »

Back to your original text: After all, you compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what you see might be expected to influence your composition.
Should probably be: After all, I compose with a B&W image in the electronic viewfinder, so what I see might be expected to influence MY composition.  Controversial no, kind of silly, lumping every photographer into a camp that doesn't affect them all, yes.
Derailed is your term for someone who doesn't suffer your issues composing an image, and stating that fact on a forum?
In terms of your difficulties composing an image in B&W or otherwise, can you not get help?  :o
Like Telecaster, you should only speak for yourself.

Andrew, go and enjoy some turkey!
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Christopher Sanderson
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digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2017, 02:37:48 PM »

Help is at hand...

But seriously, can't you both move on from this silliness? Do I really have to shut this down?
Chris


You're right Chris, I'm done. I simply don't like being lumped into a massive group that doesn't necessarily share John's difficulties.
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2017, 02:38:08 PM »

Andrew, go and enjoy some turkey!
I can't yet: It's raw!  :)
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Andrew Rodney
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2017, 02:41:14 PM »

 This stops now! Or I will lock this topic and consider banning certain users enough is enough. It’s Thanksgiving for heaven sakes. I’d like to spend time with family than looking at this kind of arguments.
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Kevin Raber
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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2017, 02:41:54 PM »

One could shoot a camera that saves jpeg +raw.   That way you can view the screen in mono  and save bw jpegs and have raw color files to work with as well.  You could then play with the color channels when creating bw or just print color as well.

digitaldog

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 02:47:37 PM »

One could shoot a camera that saves jpeg +raw. 
If you optimally exposed for the raw, that JPEG would look pretty awful no?

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Andrew Rodney
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john beardsworth

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Re: Monochrome camera vs converting from color?
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2017, 02:52:11 PM »

This stops now! Or I will lock this topic and consider banning certain users enough is enough. It’s Thanksgiving for heaven sakes. I’d like to spend time with family than looking at this kind of arguments.

It is not an argument that I started. So thank you Kevin and Chris for responding to my complaints.

Enjoy your day.
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