Scanning Tri-X negatives

[DeeRy]

Hi all
I need to pick your collective brains.

The web is full of different methods of turning colour images into black & white, but what is a good way to turn b&w into, well, b&w.

I'm looking for advice on how to get the fullest possible information from Tri-X negatives.  Tri-X is not the most subtle of films so I'm wondering why I'm having so many problems getting a scan I can live with.  I don't seem to have the control I need over the tones.  I've heard a few recommendations: scan as RGB and convert, scan as grayscale etc...  And frankly, I'm confused.

I have a Nikon Coolscan 4000.

I would love to hear what your strategies are - from the root to the fruit so to speak.

[pfigen]

I not sure where your problems are from. I've scanned hundreds of Tri-X negs from the last 30 years at resolutions up to 8000 ppi on my drum scanner. There is no intrinsic problem scanning any sort of neg. NikonScan is probably the second worse scanning application I have ever used, and in order to get the most out of it, you'll have to dig into the bowels, git your hands dirty and set it to not clip your images. Even so, a really dense neg may prove difficult for the hardware itself.

It's generally best to scan as an RGB, and then, if you want, convert to grayscale. That will have the effect of averaging the noise of all three channels and hopefully reduce it to some extent. Tri-X is a very sharp film even though it's somewhat grainy. I've seen actual detail improvement scanning over 4000 ppi on the drum, but it's a tradeoff for grain. Your Nikon scanner, even at 4000, is actually somewhat less than 3000 ppi due to losses in the optical system, so it's probably helpful in that regard.

[Mark D Segal]

If you are looking for good control over tonality at the scanning stage, the best scanning application on the market is Silverfast Ai 6 Studio edition. The only problem is that for Nikon scanners it is expensive. (Pricing varies considerably by scanner model.)

[wood]

Hello,

Open your image in PS, go to  Image - Adjustments - Channel Mixer.

Set monochrome and change the Red, Green and Blue values.

To play, start with 50%  Red, 50% Green and 0 of Blue.

Use the table to emulate BW films:



http://www.postaldigital.com.br

[mikeseb]

I have also scanned 35mm and MF Tri-X negatives, as well as many other B&W films, using a Nikon LS8000 film scanner and Nikon Scan software. Agreed, NS is not the world's greatest, but it hast the tools you need to do the job.

(People rave generally about VueScan but I find it's appallingly poorly documented, especially for the multi-frame scans one does with film scanners--never could figure this out. Agreed, I'd go with Silverfast if it weren't so dang expensive--and I may have to, since who knows how much longer Nikon will continue upgrading NS as new OS versions appear?)

I usually scan at 4000ppi in 16-bit mode in RGB--mainly because the sharpening software I use requires RGB images rather than grayscale--otherwise I don' think it matters whether NS "averages" the color channels or PS does it. I do a preview scan, and crop if needed and adjust the tone curve on the toolkit panel for the black and white points I want. I may also make minor adjustments in the tone curves as well. Then comes the final scan. I find that a slightly thinner negative scans better if I'm to retain sufficient highlight detail. I output scans as TIFF's.

Next they go to PS, where I spot the inevitable dust; then PhotoKit sharpener. Next I merge the sharpening layers, desaturate to monochrome, and add a curves adjustment to get tones where I want them. This file is then saved as a separate "master" file; any crops from this are saved as separate derivative masters.

The appropriately cropped image is then resized to 360ppi at final output size, with PhotoKit output sharpening applied and the resulting file flattened, converted to grayscale, and saved as an output file. It then goes to ImagePrint for printing.

I am old school with a long experience of the wet darkroom, so I strive to get the negatives right in the camera and in the Jobo so I have little to do in PS. I think this is the oft-overlooked key to getting the best scanned images.

Check my website for some examples: www.mikesebastianphoto.com. Some of the B&W's are digital, but most are film-based.

[D White]

Actually the Nikon scan works just fine--I use a 9000ED. The trick is to scan it as a positive to prevent the clipping that happens with the software if you tell it that it is a B&W neg.

The resulting negative image can be inverted in photoshop after or even in nikon scan by inverting each end of the tone curve superimposed over the histogram. This is done by pulling each end of the composite RGB channel to the respective top or bottom. Then use the white dropper on the film margin to set the film base point. Move the other end of the histogram in to gain full tonal range.

The scans are low in contrast but have the full tonal range without clipping. In photoshop contrast can be added with a curve as needed.

[jjj]

. I output scans as TIFF's.
Next they go to PS, where I spot the inevitable dust; then PhotoKit sharpener. Next I merge the sharpening layers, desaturate to monochrome, and add a curves adjustment to get tones where I want them. This file is then saved as a separate "master" file; any crops from this are saved as separate derivative masters.

Surely the scan straight out of scanner is the master. You may find a better way of tweaking your scans down the line and by messing with it and having thatmodified file as your master means you no longer have the original scan to go back to.

[mikeseb]

Surely the scan straight out of scanner is the master. You may find a better way of tweaking your scans down the line and by messing with it and having thatmodified file as your master means you no longer have the original scan to go back to.
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I did not make myself clear here. I save this sharpened/spotted/curved file "master" as a separate file; the scan remains unchanged as an "original". The master represents my "best effort" at the time with the tools at hand; but I do retain the scan unchanged.