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Author Topic: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?  (Read 13739 times)

henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2018, 06:31:37 PM »

True. But I have used Fuji-lenses before (Hasselnlad H). And these Fujifilm lenses are much better!
I never liked the Hasselblad H lenses much, but these lenses are the best madium format lenses I have
used. And the prices are not bad when we are used to Hasselblad and Phase one.
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Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2018, 10:37:35 AM »

I would like to tell my story:
I finally bought the gfx50s.
I first thought I would use all my old lenses.
I bought adapter for: Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Contax 645 af, Nikon, Canon, M42, Contax y.
Many of the lenses I have tried works very very good on the gfx50s.

Only one ęproblemĽ:  I have the original Fujilenses: 23mm, 110mm and 120mm macro.
All these lenses are so extremely good. I would say that these lenses are some of the very
best lenses I have ever used! And the af system is all over the sensor almost as good as
modern Sonys etc.

After buying the gfx50s I have not used my Phase one system. Now itˋs just Fuji for me.
C1 is now Lightroom.😄

That's a really great account of what is already an interesting camera system.

Which Phase One back and which Camera system has is replaced for you?
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2018, 10:59:17 AM »

I was using an XF with the IQ180.
Very good also, but the lenses Fujifilm is makig now are fantastic! This is really a system to
invest in. I think th best one for most work if you donˋt need the speed of smaller cameras.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2018, 11:03:14 AM »

Hi,

It makes a lot of sense to decide on one size of sensor and design a system around it.

It seems that Fuji has made just that with the GFX. If you are happy with the GFX, that is all that matters. I would hope the X1D is a good alternative to the GFX.

If there are glitches with new cameras, that is no surprise. Fuji have built mirrorless systems for a long time. So, I would think they have a head start on technology.

Best regards
Erik


I would like to tell my story:
I finally bought the gfx50s.
I first thought I would use all my old lenses.
I bought adapter for: Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Contax 645 af, Nikon, Canon, M42, Contax y.
Many of the lenses I have tried works very very good on the gfx50s.

Only one ęproblemĽ:  I have the original Fujilenses: 23mm, 110mm and 120mm macro.
All these lenses are so extremely good. I would say that these lenses are some of the very
best lenses I have ever used! And the af system is all over the sensor almost as good as
modern Sonys etc.

After buying the gfx50s I have not used my Phase one system. Now itˋs just Fuji for me.
C1 is now Lightroom.😄
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Erik Kaffehr
 

pschefz

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2018, 02:44:20 PM »

I would like to tell my story:
I finally bought the gfx50s.
I first thought I would use all my old lenses.
I bought adapter for: Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Contax 645 af, Nikon, Canon, M42, Contax y.
Many of the lenses I have tried works very very good on the gfx50s.

Only one ęproblemĽ:  I have the original Fujilenses: 23mm, 110mm and 120mm macro.
All these lenses are so extremely good. I would say that these lenses are some of the very
best lenses I have ever used! And the af system is all over the sensor almost as good as
modern Sonys etc.

After buying the gfx50s I have not used my Phase one system. Now itˋs just Fuji for me.
C1 is now Lightroom.😄
sounds like my experience...i got all these adapters to use lenses i have been happy with and used on sony and leica.....as well as older pentax MF glass....compared to the fuji GF glass it just does not cut it.....
my first MF film cameras were all fuji...gx 680, 690, 645....and the lenses on these were all outstanding....
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2018, 06:01:50 PM »

I just tested the new firmware 3.00.  The focus-stacking is made so easy.
Now you can do stacking away from computers and studio. Very fast and easy.
Just made the gfx even better😊😊😊
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hubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2018, 06:41:59 PM »

I just tested the new firmware 3.00.  The focus-stacking is made so easy.
Now you can do stacking away from computers and studio. Very fast and easy.
Just made the gfx even better😊😊😊

Are you sure you tried the new firmware and your GFX created a single image file in camera from multiple image files? My understanding is that the firmware does not permits direct, in camera, focus STACKING of multiple images. I believe it facilitates focus BRACKETING, where the firmware facilitates the automated creation of multiple images with different focus points. Those images still have to be assembled into a single image file with the use of image STACKING software like Helicon focus.
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2018, 06:50:50 PM »

The camera does not combine the different pictures. You have to export the frames to Helicon etc
after the shots. But that is not at all difficult.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2018, 01:20:27 AM »

Hi,

The firmware update talks about focus bracketing. It may be usable for stacking. Ideally, one would like to set minimum and maximum focus distance and steps between.

If the setable interval is wide enough and the steps are fine enough it may work very well with stacking.

Neither focus bracketing nor focus stacking is really easy using focusing rings made for AF, so firmware based solutions may be a great help.

Best regards
Erik


Are you sure you tried the new firmware and your GFX created a single image file in camera from multiple image files? My understanding is that the firmware does not permits direct, in camera, focus STACKING of multiple images. I believe it facilitates focus BRACKETING, where the firmware facilitates the automated creation of multiple images with different focus points. Those images still have to be assembled into a single image file with the use of image STACKING software like Helicon focus.
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Erik Kaffehr
 

henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2018, 03:59:29 AM »

Sorry I use the term stacking when I really talk about the first step which is focus bracketing.
The steps can be adjusted in different steps and it seems very accurate. I have just tested it for macro.
That works great. But I am sure it will be just as great for nature. This is the best focus-bracketing system I have used so far.
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hubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2018, 08:49:28 AM »

This is the best focus-bracketing system I have used so far.

Really? Donít you have a Phase XF, which I believe allows you set minimum and maximum focus points? I would think the XF would provide a more accurate approach to the required number and placement of focus points. With the GFX firmware, I think you ( or the camera) are sort of guessing. Can you explain in more detail how the GFX is determining the number and placement of focus points?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2018, 09:35:17 AM »

[The GFX] is the best focus-bracketing system I have used so far.

Really? Donít you have a Phase XF, which I believe allows you set minimum and maximum focus points? I would think the XF would provide a more accurate approach to the required number and placement of focus points. With the GFX firmware, I think you ( or the camera) are sort of guessing. Can you explain in more detail how the GFX is determining the number and placement of focus points?

Focus Bracketing and Focus Stacking are two separate use cases.

With focus bracketing the goal is to have one master point of focus and capture a couple of safety shots in front or behind that plane of focus. It tends to be most useful in the field and only sometimes useful in the studio. Subject matter movement in between frames is usually not very important. The goal is to capture multiple frames with the intent of selecting the one individual frame that is focused where/how you intended, and saves time fine tuning the focus in situations where time is short or confidence in focus assessment is low.

With focus stacking the goal is to have a front plane and a rear plane, and to capture as many shots (whether that be 2 or 100) required to have focus continuously in between. It tends to be most useful in the studio and is only sometimes useful in the field. The goal is to capture multiple frames which will be combined into one composite frame with greater depth of field. Therefore subject matter movement between frames is often a significant issue.

They are not unrelated (they both involve taking more than one picture with different focus points) but the interface should match the fundamentally different goals of each. You can use a Focus Bracketing feature for focus stacking, but it will be a bit awkward* for it. Likewise you can use a Focus Stacking tool for focus bracketing but it will be a bit awkward*.

If XF users are interested in Focus Bracketing being added to the XF I'd encourage them to share that interest with their dealer or, if they don't have a dealer, by starting a support case at phaseone.com. If there is enough interest it seems simple enough to implement; they have all the technical capability required in the body and have illustrated over and over (FU1, FU2, FU3, FU4) a desire to add tools that are desired by a meaningful part of their user base.

Personally I hope Fuji adds Focus Stacking to the GFX (or future camera) and Phase One adds Focus Bracketing to the XF.

*Awkward doesn't mean unworkable. Just that it's not native/elegant feeling in that use case, especially when compared to the experience of using a feature purpose-built for that use case.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 09:41:38 AM by Doug Peterson »
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hubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2018, 10:48:05 AM »

Focus Bracketing and Focus Stacking are two separate use cases.

With focus bracketing the goal is to have one master point of focus and capture a couple of safety shots in front or behind that plane of focus. It tends to be most useful in the field and only sometimes useful in the studio. Subject matter movement in between frames is usually not very important. The goal is to capture multiple frames with the intent of selecting the one individual frame that is focused where/how you intended, and saves time fine tuning the focus in situations where time is short or confidence in focus assessment is low.

With focus stacking the goal is to have a front plane and a rear plane, and to capture as many shots (whether that be 2 or 100) required to have focus continuously in between. It tends to be most useful in the studio and is only sometimes useful in the field. The goal is to capture multiple frames which will be combined into one composite frame with greater depth of field. Therefore subject matter movement between frames is often a significant issue.

They are not unrelated (they both involve taking more than one picture with different focus points) but the interface should match the fundamentally different goals of each. You can use a Focus Bracketing feature for focus stacking, but it will be a bit awkward* for it. Likewise you can use a Focus Stacking tool for focus bracketing but it will be a bit awkward*.

If XF users are interested in Focus Bracketing being added to the XF I'd encourage them to share that interest with their dealer or, if they don't have a dealer, by starting a support case at phaseone.com. If there is enough interest it seems simple enough to implement; they have all the technical capability required in the body and have illustrated over and over (FU1, FU2, FU3, FU4) a desire to add tools that are desired by a meaningful part of their user base.

Personally I hope Fuji adds Focus Stacking to the GFX (or future camera) and Phase One adds Focus Bracketing to the XF.

*Awkward doesn't mean unworkable. Just that it's not native/elegant feeling in that use case, especially when compared to the experience of using a feature purpose-built for that use case.

I don't think your explanation squares with how the users of the Fuji GFX understand and will use the Focus Bracketing function that was just added in firmware. I think they will use the multiple images that the camera takes and use all/most of them to stack in post-processing software like Helicon Focus or Zerene. I think you are being too subtle in explaining that the Focus Bracketing function in the GFX is a "dumb" tool compared to the one in the XF (and apparently the D850), as it is hit or miss as to whether it will produce an optimum set of files with different focus points for stacking. To me, the XF is a much more sophisticated form of Focus Bracketing. It's semantics. However, while the GFX is not as well engineered as the XF in its selection of focus points, it still may be better than a totally manual approach. I expect we will hear some observations about its usefulness in practice.
Is there any technical reason why Fuji could not implement the same type of Focus Bracketing as the XF?
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2018, 11:54:58 AM »

Really? Donít you have a Phase XF, which I believe allows you set minimum and maximum focus points? I would think the XF would provide a more accurate approach to the required number and placement of focus points. With the GFX firmware, I think you ( or the camera) are sort of guessing. Can you explain in more detail how the GFX is determining the number and placement of focus points?


I do have the XF. Is is good, but the gfx bracketing is much easier to use.
if you have much time, the xf is fine, but personally I like the gfx best.
Also the Fujifilm lenses are the best I have tried so far. Others may disagree,
but this is what I think.
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hubell

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2018, 12:26:32 PM »


I do have the XF. Is is good, but the gfx bracketing is much easier to use.
if you have much time, the xf is fine, but personally I like the gfx best.
Also the Fujifilm lenses are the best I have tried so far. Others may disagree,
but this is what I think.

Sure, the GFX lenses are excellent, but an optimally focused lens on an XF is WAY better than a GFX lens that is NOT optimally focused.
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henrikfoto

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2018, 02:42:40 PM »

Of course, but when you focus bracket it really dont matter much if the
camera is perfectly adjusted. As long as it is not way off..
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2018, 08:16:16 PM »

Hi,

Jim Kasson's testing shows that focusing on the GFX is very accurate and it allows to focus stopped down, which eliminates the effects of focus shifting.

Jim has not done testing on the Phase One XF.

I have high regards for Jim Kasson's testing because he describes the methods he uses in detail.

Best regards
Erik


Of course, but when you focus bracket it really dont matter much if the
camera is perfectly adjusted. As long as it is not way off..
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Bo_Dez

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2018, 08:34:18 AM »

I've not tested the GFX yet. The camera doesn't really do it for me, as much as the X1D. But i think it's clear that the lenses are quite exceptional, just from what I have seen, heard, and read.

Both the H and the XF, in my opinion, have lenses that get the job done. I prefer the H lenses which I find more interesting in their rendering. The XF lenses to me are nothing special in that regard at all and a bit of a turn off. The XF and H lenses are mostly all getting old as well. I just see the Blue Ring lenses as tarted up old versions with a hefty price.

The development is going to go where the interest is and I think that is the GFX and X1D. The lenses coming from these are the most recent cutting edge designs. Fuji have historically made exceptional lenses. The X1D lenses are already proving quite exceptional too.

It's a tricky decision for me between the two. I think Phocus makes quite a difference, the GFX has no native converter and is a bit out of the loop in that regard. Ultimately I can see that the Blad may have a better overall envelope from capture to output. I do think the GFX is fugly, the X1D is stunning.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2018, 11:02:19 AM »

. I do think the GFX is fugly, the X1D is stunning.

The beauty of the camera has no bearing for me when it comes to my choice of instrument. Before I got my nice-looking Master Technika, I was happy with the appearance of my ugly Speed Graphic. I got rid of my pretty M9 and M240 in favor of pedestrian-looking a7RIIs and IIIs. I use a lot of Nikon gear, but I was never tempted by the good-looking Df. My favorite MF view camera was the dull Arca Swiss folding-monorail 6x9. I also used Arca Swiss 4x5 and 8x10 monorail cameras, in spite of the fact that the Sinars looked better.

All those opinions about beauty are, of course, totally subjective.

Jim

calindustries

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gfx50s fujifilm or Hasselblad x1D? is one really better?
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2018, 11:35:02 AM »

Oh how I wish the gfx could tether to C1.... I really love my XT2 and am trying the XH1 today so even though I havenít used the GFX I could see transitioning to it being fairly painless. The fact the little Fujiís donít natively tether to C1 doesnít bother me as I use them in situations that are shoot to card.  I do shoot tethered to all my studio/lit work and have come to depend on C1 tether workflow as a necessity. For now I love my H4X and H glass with credo back but now that Iím getting used to evf as itís gotten so much better Iíd like to update. I just couldnít see myself doing any of the ďhack/jpg preview in hot folderĒ workarounds and am going to wait to see what happens. Iíd consider the X1D because of its ability to use Phocus but for now..... 

Hell, Iíll pay an additional yearly usage/subscription fee to Phase for the ability to open up C1 to the GFX. Iím sure Iím not the only one who would pay for this


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