Dry Creek, new profiles seem dark in shadows!!!

[dwdallam]

A technician was installing new updated DC profiles at my Costco a few days ago. The new prints look dark in the shadows. Could this be because I was using the old profile and the Costco machine had the new profiles loaded before they ran my prints? Screwed them all up except on high contrast image. I just recalibrated my monitor too, but now I remeber him installing them and this batch of photos was using the old profile.

UPDATE: I tested today with the same prints converted to the new DC profile. No difference. This is really bugging me. How can I "test" that they do not have a problem in the shadows, that being they are way too dark?

[dwdallam]

...

[Tim Lookingbill]

Those printers at Costco don't use profiles. They are loosely calibrated to the sRGB space except in highly saturated colors seen on your monitor and may vary in contrast and color cast.

What you need to do is run a test print in sRGB containing a 21 step grayramp and samples of your images. Compare the print to the sRGB image by assigning your current Costco profile. If it's way off you'll need to find another profile to assign that makes the test image look like the print.

Maybe the Costco lab operators are working out the kinks and waiting a week may have brought things back the way they were.

I've had similar problems with a Fuji Frontier at Walgreens after the regional manager updated the minilab software. I gave up on them and used a competitor's Noritsu with much more predictable results using DryCreekPhoto's profile.

[dwdallam]

Those printers at Costco don't use profiles. They are loosely calibrated to the sRGB space except in highly saturated colors seen on your monitor and may vary in contrast and color cast.

What you need to do is run a test print in sRGB containing a 21 step grayramp and samples of your images. Compare the print to the sRGB image by assigning your current Costco profile. If it's way off you'll need to find another profile to assign that makes the test image look like the print.

Maybe the Costco lab operators are working out the kinks and waiting a week may have brought things back the way they were.

I've had similar problems with a Fuji Frontier at Walgreens after the regional manager updated the minilab software. I gave up on them and used a competitor's Noritsu with much more predictable results using DryCreekPhoto's profile.
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Yes, Costco does use profiles. They contract it out to Dry Creek, and you can download them at the Dry Creek Website. My Costco lab technicians don't know how to do anything except press the buttons and frown at you when you pick up your prints. But any other information is appreciated.

[Tim Lookingbill]

When they say they use profiles it means they send a target similar to what I mentioned previously to DryCreekPhoto to create a profile from. What you need to tell the operator is to set the printer's settings to the state the target was printed.

This may be an unknown if the operator you're dealing with doesn't know those settings. You need to get with some one at Costco that originally printed the target that knows what the settings were and have them set the printer to that target state for the profile to work.

I don't know why they went to the trouble of profiling their printer and not know what the settings were. Seems a waist of time and money.

I downloadable and convert to the profile off DryCreekPhoto for my local Noritsu and the operators just push a button and it works. I tell them not to color correct. That's all. If I don't convert to the DryCreek profile my images print with an orangish color cast and much lighter. That's the state that is measured and accounted for within the profile.

[dwdallam]

When they say they use profiles it means they send a target similar to what I mentioned previously to DryCreekPhoto to create a profile from. What you need to tell the operator is to set the printer's settings to the state the target was printed.

This may be an unknown if the operator you're dealing with doesn't know those settings. You need to get with some one at Costco that originally printed the target that knows what the settings were and have them set the printer to that target state for the profile to work.

I don't know why they went to the trouble of profiling their printer and not know what the settings were. Seems a waist of time and money.

I downloadable and convert to the profile off DryCreekPhoto for my local Noritsu and the operators just push a button and it works. I tell them not to color correct. That's all. If I don't convert to the DryCreek profile my images print with an orangish color cast and much lighter. That's the state that is measured and accounted for within the profile.
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I always say no adjustment no resize also, as I do all fo that myself. What do you mean push a button? Does this setting stay enabled for all printing they do, or only for your prints? I tested three photos today, two were color charts, and one a landscape. I did two with the profiles and one in Adobe RGB 1998. The Adobe profile was spot on, and so to for the profiled file. The landscape was still very dark in the shadows.

[Tim Lookingbill]

Well, you've stumped me then, because I haven't heard of any Costco minilab that can do an on the fly conversion on a tagged AdobeRGB file to an internal printer profile loaded in their software.

As far as I know, the DryCreekPhoto database profile I use with my Noritsu was created from the regular dumbed down push button settings they use with all their customers so nothing has to be specially chosen within their software. The only thing operators LIKE to do is fiddle with color and density bias with very limited editing tools and they need to be told NOT to do this.

These minilabs if calibrated and maintained on a regular basis will usually print a grayramp that looks pretty close to what is seen on the monitor, meaning it prints in a linearized stable and constant state as long as you use the same settings everytime from which the profile was built from.

I ask the operator if they change any software settings specific to my files and they always say they run my prints using the same settings they use for everyone else including my sRGB target print I use to test for printer drift. They indicate they don't have time to change any settings because they weren't trained to know anything else about the printer software's standardized settings. And when you see the volumn of prints they need to generate you can understand why.

I just know they are off, not you. They need to fix it on their end. Don't take no for an answer or you'll be on a troubleshooting excursion that'll waste your time like you'ld never believe. Find someone more knowledgeable than the person you're dealing with if you don't get the answers you need. I know for sure you shouldn't be having this much trouble with such a stable well behaved printer like these minilabs.

I wish I could help you more.

[dwdallam]

Well, I Convert the file not embed. I may have found the problem, so see my post in Digital Cameras main forum. I think they may have left the emulsions too long before changing them, but who knows. I did prints today and things are back to normal, hopefully. I'm really tired of their rude snippy short answers and attitudes too. I do now have reference files I printed today. So if they say nothing is wrong, I can shove them down their F-ing throats.