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Author Topic: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user  (Read 12554 times)

TomFrerichs

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Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« on: October 24, 2017, 04:08:42 pm »

Warning: really long post...

The good news
Lightroom 6 (perpetual) will satisfy my needs for many years, particularly since Adobe has promised to release Nikon D850 support later this month. I don’t expect to purchase an unsupported camera for some time, and Windows 10 isn’t slated to suddenly change. I’ve got time.

What’s wrong with Lightroom – even Classic?
Not a damn thing. It’s a great program, integrating ingest, DAM, processing, exporting, and printing in one simple, easy to use application. I know some have complained about performance or have claimed that other RAW processors offer better image quality. I have not found any of these to be an issue for me. Lightroom has some warts, but it’s at least as good if not better than any alternative applications currently available…for my needs.

Then why exit? Just suck it up!
Let’s get one thing out of the way. The subscription fee does not bother me. Indeed, it’s amazingly inexpensive for what’s offered. I know some do consider it important, illustrating their point with all sorts of calculations. For me, the 10 USD per month is not a problem. Heck, I just spent $5000 on a new camera body, grip, and lens. That’s a lot of ten-dollar months.

If it isn’t cost that going to cause me to end my subscription, what would? I can only speculate, but I’m not feeling the Adobe love right now.

As Thom Hogan and, I think, Jeff Schewe have pointed out, photographers like me (and I think many other LuLa readers) are not a major component of Adobe’s customer base. If we all discontinued the use of Adobe’s products, we’d have a tiny impact on Adobe’s bottom line. Adobe is not here to serve us; their duty is to their shareholders, which they satisfy by producing applications that generate income. It’s because we like the product that they get that income.

What I fear is that in the future Adobe may either discontinue Lightroom Classic or make such modifications to the program that it would become, for me, unusable. Oh, I’m sure they will support Classic “indefinitely.” I don’t trust their definition of that word.
If you think that Adobe wouldn’t do such a thing, harken back to the great import dialog crisis. To their credit, Adobe rolled back that change fairly quickly, but if some other change proves as unpopular, yet better serves a larger customer base, would they roll back? I don’t think so. I think Adobe is looking to get a piece of the cloud-based pie: the Instagram, smartphone, connected customer and their work. If a feature added to serve those new customers conflicted with something a desktop using, unconnected-camera owning, old fart like me uses, then I don’t think my view would win. I’d think they’d follow the money, as they should.

I also dread the new names, “Classic” and “Lightroom CC,” the latter of which took over the previous name for the subscription version of LR 6. It’s as though Adobe is expecting the new “CC” to take on the role of primary Lightroom application, while “Classic” will be maintained for compatibility.

So what if your subscription ends?
At least currently, if I subscribe and my subscription ends, then my raw and JPEGs will still be spinning on my drive. I will still be able to access my catalog, print, and export from those image files. What would I lose?

Of course, I’d lose the ability to modify previously processed images; this is understood. What I’d really lose is the ability to apply anything I’d learned or done to anything new. I couldn’t add new images to the catalog, so I’d end up either redoing everything or maintaining two different systems for DAM. It’d almost be like two epochs, BSE and ASE (Before Subscription Ended and After Subscription Ended).

If I migrate from Lightroom now, I’ll still face that same messy problem. All I’ve done is move the transition to an earlier date, with one exception: by doing so now, while I still have a perpetually licensed version of Lightroom, I avoid losing functionality in the future. I understand that LR Classic updates the catalog, making it incompatible with LR6. This is the same behavior as previous major releases have done. So long as I don’t upgrade, I can continue to use LR 6 for many years, even after I’ve migrated to a different workflow. If I go subscription, I don’t have this backout.

So what am I going to do?
I’ve come to the conclusion that one of Lightroom’s primary strengths, the integration of ingest, DAM, etc., is also a weakness.  With LR, I can’t realistically keep one part and ignore the rest. If I want to print, the image has to be in the catalog. If I want to add something to the catalog, it has to be supported by the develop module. With LR I get all or none.

For this reason I’ve decided that I’m better off using separate applications to handle the major divisions of my workflow. I know this means that I’m going to be paying more money and that there’ll be frustrations getting it all to work together, but I honestly don’t see a better way forwards.

For example, I’m leaning towards using Photo Mechanic to do ingest. I know very well it’s not a DAM, but it does offer a configurable way to ingest and store image files. It also allows some simple, and in some cases automated, methods of initial DAM work such as keywording, etc. From my very initial look, it writes standard XMP sidecars.

There are a number of DAM solutions at various price points and capabilities. I’m a bit leery of open source solutions because I am concerned about future support. Some open source software is very, very good, but in time interest wains and it becomes stuck in the past. Of course there’s no way I’m going to look at Cantos Cumulus, at a mere $30,000 per license, but I am taking a look at Media One SE. I’m still trying to figure out how well it integrates with Capture One. I don’t want to get stuck using Capture One’s DAM, even if I use CO’s raw processor. That’d put me back into the one application to rule them all prison.

There’re a number of raw processors, and almost every raw processor allows JPEG and TIFF exporting, which would allow me to provide cooked files to my clients and permit processing by Photoshop, Affinity, or other raster editors as necessary.

So far I’ve just looked at QImage Ultimate for printing, and it looks as though it will be satisfactory. But there are other alternatives to explore, including high priced RIPs.

If anyone has suggestions, I’d be more than interested in learning of your experiences.



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john beardsworth

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 04:42:29 pm »

Concise answer: wait and watch. Adobe have only shot themselves in the foot, not in the head.
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Schewe

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 04:45:04 pm »

Foolish...fearing the future and allowing it to negatively impact your present is foolish. But it's your life to spend (or waste) as you will...

Adobe "may" do a lot of things but to cut off your nose now because at some point in the future Adobe may not support Lightroom in the flavor you want it is really giving Adobe too much power over your life. Use whatever tool you want to use but for heavens sake, why use anything that negatively impacts your work?

Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits...

Go right ahead and assemble a variety of replacement apps to use instead of Lightroom. Have fun...I'm sure it will make your life far more complicated and inefficient. Be sure to stop by and fill us in on your success (or failure to do so).

In the meantime, a lot of people will be getting a lot of work done slightly more efficiently and a little bit better with Lightroom Classic vs the previous iterations of Lightroom.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 04:53:35 pm »


If anyone has suggestions, I’d be more than interested in learning of your experiences.

Two points:
(1) I'm on the LR/PS bundle subscription using LR 6.x. It performs beautifully. I'm staying there until I'm satisfied no serious non-repaired bugs will affect usability of the new upgrade.
(2) I shall continue to pay my 10 USD/month for this bundle and upgrade to LR Classic 7 once the aforementioned waiting period is over with. It remains the most practical, fully-featured and efficient  solution from camera to print/slides/web/books on the market, and the output quality is fine in the hands of competent users.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rhossydd

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 05:29:31 pm »

Concise answer: wait and watch.
Agreed.
If you're happy with LR6 on Win10 and aren't expecting to buy an unsupported camera there's no need for any urgent concern or change. Just carry on enjoying working with LR6 and be happy not to be spending more cash on something you've lived without until now anyway. There's no need to panic. You only have a concern when it might stop working for you.

Schewe's comment is somewhat debatable though;
"Go right ahead and assemble a variety of replacement apps to use instead of Lightroom. Have fun...I'm sure it will make your life far more complicated and inefficient."
Picking up other software when on offer and cheap, may well prove helpful in the long term. Having, say, Qimage and Affinity sitting on the hard drive won't break the bank, but both have options that neither LR or PS offer that might help you regardless.
More importantly, looking at other approaches broadens one's experience and knowledge and can lead to new ways of approaching post processing that may in turn improve what you do in LR.




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john beardsworth

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 05:34:07 pm »

Schewe's comment is somewhat debatable though;

But don't you remember before Aperture / Lightroom? I recall stringing together a "workflow" that involved a series of apps. You can do it, and it was wonderful once DNG meant I could see my adjustments in my catalogue (Extensis, tehniView), but what a fxxxing waste of time and energy!
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Kevin Gallagher

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 05:48:51 pm »

  "Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits..."

 Like an election???

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Kevin In CT
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 06:15:26 pm »

  "Personally, I really question the the behavior and thinking of so many photographers who seem to feel the whole world revolves around them and scream bloody murder when things change and force them to alter their habits..."

 Like an election???

Pulease, let's not go there!
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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TomFrerichs

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 06:36:16 pm »

Pulease, let's not go there!
Thank you for that.

Tom
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Schewe

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 07:03:56 pm »

Picking up other software when on offer and cheap, may well prove helpful in the long term. Having, say, Qimage and Affinity sitting on the hard drive won't break the bank, but both have options that neither LR or PS offer that might help you regardless.

That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.

Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
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hogloff

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 07:13:55 pm »

That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.

Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)

This point is bang on. I personally don't have the time to waste playing around with some new software when I can be doing something more productive with my time.

If it ain't broke...don't try and fix it...that's how I feel about LR / PS. That might change next year or 5 years from now...but today...it just trucks along.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 07:15:34 pm »

That's fine...but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps and currently Windows only. How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles? I see a lot of photographers flailing about trying all manner of apps and filters and whatnot all which ends up being a fairly inefficient way of working to me.

Go ahead and stock your library with lots of books...but I bet you won't read them all :~)
But one can stay with LR6 and use Affinity Photo as a PS replacement if one did not already have PS CS6.  One can wait to see what Affinity does with their DAM project which should come out next year.  It may or may not be as good as LR but right now Affinity are not on a subscription model.
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Christopher Sanderson

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 07:20:02 pm »

Like an election???

Kevin, please keep this type of comment away from this discussion.

Chris

Rhossydd

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 04:42:53 am »

currently Windows only.
My comment was addressed to the OP who is on Windows, BUT Affinity is both Mac and Win and Qimage is now in beta for the Mac anyway.
Quote
but both of those come with a learning curve–Image is pretty steeps ...........How much time do you wish to spend learning a whole selection of software titles?
Hardly a steep learning curve on those programs. Anyone fluent in PS will know the fundamentals well enough to get on with productive work fast.
However you fail to acknowledge that these programs can offer new and better options than LR & PS which can be well worth the minor effort of getting to grips with them.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 04:52:09 am »

But again, don't you remember the old world before LR / Aperture? You didn't just need fluency, you needed ingenuity and time to make a series of "best of breed" apps work together smoothly. We easily forget the advantages of managing, tagging, adjusting and outputting in a single app.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2017, 05:26:52 am »

But again, don't you remember the old world before LR / Aperture?
Yes, you're right LR is undoubtedly the slickest solution to RAW workflow. We'd love to see it's licencing model continue as it has done in the past, but many of us aren't going to be Adobe's cash cows so we look elsewhere.

It might not be more efficient to use other programs, but alternatives can sometimes offer ultimately better results anyway. For those that don't rely on photo software for a living don't need to worry too much about some minor inefficiencies, end results matter.

Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2017, 05:41:18 am »

Yes, you're right LR is undoubtedly the slickest solution to RAW workflow. We'd love to see it's licencing model continue as it has done in the past, but many of us aren't going to be Adobe's cash cows so we look elsewhere.

It might not be more efficient to use other programs, but alternatives can sometimes offer ultimately better results anyway. For those that don't rely on photo software for a living don't need to worry too much about some minor inefficiencies, end results matter.

Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.

Sorry, but I don't think I said anything insulting to you, but you come back with that? Is that your best response?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2017, 09:11:57 am »


Yes, those with financial interests in Adobe (or just plain fan bois) will try to defend whatever it does to the end, but the clear heads will make up their own minds.

Paul, I don't think it provides value-added here to dumb-down the discussion by categorizing people in this false manner. One can choose to buy a subscription or not for rational objective reasons supporting either option without having any financial interest in the company, without being a fan-boy and while still being very clear-minded. Different people in different circumstances will do what they think is best for themselves for sensible reasons. A discussion in a Forum like this should help to inform these decisions rather than to denigrate the contributors with suppositions of defective character traits. We are trying to keep this forum at a professional and decent level, devoid of personal innuendo which contributes nothing constructive to the dialog. 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2017, 10:56:30 am »

A discussion in a Forum like this should help to inform these decisions
quite right.  A point that I've tried to make is that there are options available today if one wants to stay with LR6 (provided no new cameras are in the equation) or even stop paying the subscription for current LR CC.  If only the develop module is disabled one can still stay on LR for the DAM and printing abilities and use an external program such as Affinity Photo to do the developing tasks.  Sure it's a somewhat convoluted but not like adding a hodgepodge of different programs.  For those on LR6 'perpetual' one doesn't have some of the new features that the subscribers have but it will still do more the 90% of what users need.  This way one can keep their powder dry to see what Affinity or MacPhun do with their DAM/develop programs that are supposed to be released in 2018.  If they are not as robust as LR one can always subscribe to LR and move forward.

I don't think things are as difficult as some have posted.
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JeanMichel

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Re: Exit strategy for a Lightroom user
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2017, 11:02:53 am »

To add my nickel's worth of comment here. I started my 'digital photography life' with Bridge and Photoshop, and that was fine. then I purchased a Leica M9 which came with Lightroom 4, I think. I found LR to be most useful, especially after viewing the LR video from LULA. I moved to the subscription model a while ago, and now have updated to the Classic, which works just fine.

LR very much duplicated my darkroom methods, even at keeping printing notes: I used to make copious notes on paper grade, burning, dodging, development time, and so on for my prints just so that I would be able to reprint a negative with at least a good start. With LR, that is all kept together with the image or the virtual copy, simply amazing.

I really don't think that there are that many new features that can be aded to LR, refining masks methods is about all that I am looking for. LR today is just like a kitchen appliance, at some point there is no possible new useful feature for stove or kettle.

I look upon the continuing cost of using LR to be similar purchasing darkroom chemistry: every roll or sheet used up some amount of the chemistry and you purchased new supplies. LR is far less expensive!

I am not keen on the non-Classic CC. I prefer to keep all my files at home.

I am also quite certain that at some point, far in the future I hope, LR or our current digital methods will become obsolete; our files in the cloud or on hard drives will not be readable by the newest and bestest whatever. So, any image worth keeping should, must, be printed. Prints will remain human-readable well after the digital era is replaced by something else.

Jean-Michel
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