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Author Topic: Finding A2 paper size in the US  (Read 4500 times)

kurt765

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Finding A2 paper size in the US
« on: October 20, 2017, 08:53:16 pm »

I recently purchased a Canon imagePrograf 1000. There's a number of reasons why I chose to go this route over the other available options (such as the P5000) but one thing I was wondering about is where I could find A2 size Hahnemühle papers (16.5 x 23.4 in). That extra 1.4 inches of width is appealing over the readily available 17x22 size when sourcing material that is from 2x3 format DSLR sensors without cropping.

Does anyone have a recommendation of where I might be able to get my hands on A2 size paper in the US?
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mearussi

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 09:13:38 pm »

A2 is really uncommon, but 17x25 is available at Red River, Breathing Color and a few others.
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Ryan Mack

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 06:35:35 am »

Hahnemuhle Photo Gloss Baryta used to come in 17x25 sheets when it was sold as Hartman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta. You can probably find it under the old name. Otherwise you can cut sheets from a 24” roll for an approximation of it.
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patjoja

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 02:23:38 am »

I recently purchased a Canon imagePrograf 1000. There's a number of reasons why I chose to go this route over the other available options (such as the P5000) but one thing I was wondering about is where I could find A2 size Hahnemühle papers (16.5 x 23.4 in). That extra 1.4 inches of width is appealing over the readily available 17x22 size when sourcing material that is from 2x3 format DSLR sensors without cropping.

Does anyone have a recommendation of where I might be able to get my hands on A2 size paper in the US?

I cannot answer your A2 paper size question, but I'm not sure how the A2 paper size helps you with 2x3 format size  (1.5 to 1 aspect ratio).  A2 size is 1.42 to 1 aspect ratio. It seem like 12x18 on 13x19 paper and 16x24 on 17 x 25 paper would be a better fit.  Personally I generally print 12x18 on 17x22 using a wide margin.  My go to paper is Canson Platine though, which is very similar to Red River which is available in 17x25 sheets.

Patrick
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 04:18:28 am »

Hahnemuhle Photo Gloss Baryta used to come in 17x25 sheets when it was sold as Hartman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta. You can probably find it under the old name. Otherwise you can cut sheets from a 24” roll for an approximation of it.

17" rolls and cutting to the required length will fit 2:3 ratio + manual print margins better and makes the roll curl memory more compatible on the printer. Totally unfamiliar with the Canon iP 1000 though. Not allowing a sheet longer than 594 mm would already burst this balloon. Though with some white margins around the image it could still work out properly, about an inch wide margins and the sheet length made 619 mm. Image roughly 568x379 mm, with white margin the print 619x430 mm.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Panagiotis

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 04:45:53 am »

17" rolls and cutting to the required length will fit 2:3 ratio + manual print margins better and makes the roll curl memory more compatible on the printer. Totally unfamiliar with the Canon iP 1000 though. Not allowing a sheet longer than 594 mm would already burst this balloon. Though with some white margins around the image it could still work out properly, about an inch wide margins and the sheet length made 619 mm. Image roughly 568x379 mm, with white margin the print 619x430 mm.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

I print exclusively from rolls with the pro-1000. One reason for this is the greater than 59.4cm length of the A2 sheet. it can print a sheet up to 64.77cm.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 07:52:46 am »

I print exclusively from rolls with the pro-1000. One reason for this is the greater than 59.4cm length of the A2 sheet. it can print a sheet up to 64.77cm.

Alright, that opens up another approach to printing longer sheets too; either by making longer sheets or taping a paper tail to them, both then called roll to the printer. Usually there is a mechanical switch or optical sensor that looks for the end of the roll/sheet and stops the printing too soon when the sheet is too short to be a roll.

Some prefer sheets to be rid of the curl right away. Sheets cut from rolls can get that flatness in time or forced. Heavier papers from rolls can give issues on desktop printer models, even on 44" stand alone machines, flat sheets usually can be thicker.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Panagiotis

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 08:02:21 am »

Alright, that opens up another approach to printing longer sheets too; either by making longer sheets or taping a paper tail to them, both then called roll to the printer. Usually there is a mechanical switch or optical sensor that looks for the end of the roll/sheet and stops the printing too soon when the sheet is too short to be a roll.

Some prefer sheets to be rid of the curl right away. Sheets cut from rolls can get that flatness in time or forced. Heavier papers from rolls can give issues on desktop printer models, even on 44" stand alone machines, flat sheets usually can be thicker.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Canon PRO-1000 cannot print roll. The longest sheet it can accept in it's driver settings is 64.77cm. The sheet can be longer. It just ejects it at the end. Actual printed area is 64cm (or a little less) because the driver forces some minor margins in non standard sheet sizes, that means it cannot print borderless on not standard sizes.

EDIT: Longest printed area 63.96cm
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:15:57 am by Panagiotis »
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 01:36:24 pm »

Quote
I was wondering about is where I could find A2 size Hahnemühle papers (16.5 x 23.4 in).... Does anyone have a recommendation of where I might be able to get my hands on A2 size paper in the US?

Not Hahnemühle, but just in case you weren't aware, B&H lists a bunch of papers in A2 size: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=1118&fct=fct_sheet-size_162%7c16.5x23.4in-a2&N=3752970783.

Quote
I'm not sure how the A2 paper size helps you with 2x3 format size  (1.5 to 1 aspect ratio).  A2 size is 1.42 to 1 aspect ratio.

A2 is a little more efficient for a 3:2 image than the 1.29:1 aspect ratio of the much more common 17x22 inch paper. And 17x25 inches is a little more efficient still, at 1.47:1.
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GrahamBy

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 02:24:34 pm »

I cannot answer your A2 paper size question, but I'm not sure how the A2 paper size helps you with 2x3 format size  (1.5 to 1 aspect ratio).  A2 size is 1.42 to 1 aspect ratio. It seem like 12x18 on 13x19 paper and 16x24 on 17 x 25 paper would be a better fit.  Personally I generally print 12x18 on 17x22 using a wide margin.

3:2 prints on A2 with a 36mm white margin all around.

16x24 on 17x25 looks pretty crappy unless you're going to mount/mat/frame it, in my experience.
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patjoja

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 04:31:37 pm »

3:2 prints on A2 with a 36mm white margin all around.

16x24 on 17x25 looks pretty crappy unless you're going to mount/mat/frame it, in my experience.

Thanks for your comments.  Since I'm in the US I have to print to US standards.  What would your recommendation be for a print in US sizing in the same approximate size range as A2?

Patrick
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 05:07:44 pm »

Quote
3:2 prints on A2 with a 36mm white margin all around.

16x24 on 17x25 looks pretty crappy unless you're going to mount/mat/frame it, in my experience.

That's a matter of personal taste and preference. It also depends considerably on the particular image and how the image is framed or otherwise presented for viewing.

Quote
Since I'm in the US I have to print to US standards.  What would your recommendation be for a print in US sizing in the same approximate size range as A2?

There is no one right answer, and 17x22 inches, A2, and 17x25 inches are all reasonably-available photo paper sizes in the U.S. If you want to print a full 3:2 image and maintain even margins on all sides--and that's again a personal preference and aesthetic choice, not a law of physics--then these are your options:
(1) 17x22 inch paper containing 10x15 inch image and 3.5 inch margins on each side,
(2) A2 paper containing 13.7x20.6 inch image and 1.4 inch margins on each side, or
(3) 17x25 inch paper containing 16x24 inch image and 0.5 inch margins on each side.

You can actually calculate this easily for any paper size:
single-side margin = image aspect ratio * paper short side - paper long side (where aspect ratio is ratio of long side to short side)

And of course, with an appropriate-size trimmer, it is easy to trim any image size on any paper size to even margins. Rotatrim, Dahle, and others offer a variety of models.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:11:07 pm by NAwlins_Contrarian »
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patjoja

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 02:54:15 am »

That's a matter of personal taste and preference. It also depends considerably on the particular image and how the image is framed or otherwise presented for viewing.

There is no one right answer, and 17x22 inches, A2, and 17x25 inches are all reasonably-available photo paper sizes in the U.S. If you want to print a full 3:2 image and maintain even margins on all sides--and that's again a personal preference and aesthetic choice, not a law of physics--then these are your options:
(1) 17x22 inch paper containing 10x15 inch image and 3.5 inch margins on each side,
(2) A2 paper containing 13.7x20.6 inch image and 1.4 inch margins on each side, or
(3) 17x25 inch paper containing 16x24 inch image and 0.5 inch margins on each side.

You can actually calculate this easily for any paper size:
single-side margin = image aspect ratio * paper short side - paper long side (where aspect ratio is ratio of long side to short side)

And of course, with an appropriate-size trimmer, it is easy to trim any image size on any paper size to even margins. Rotatrim, Dahle, and others offer a variety of models.

Yes, I agree, there is no one right answer and a lot depends on aesthetics and how the image will be presented.  I have agonized over frame sizes, aspect ratio's, image and paper sizes more than I care to admit.  I drive my wife crazy.  Since I sell my prints, I have settled on image sizes of 12x18 and 8x12 printed on 17x22 and 11x14 paper sizes respectively for the print bins.  The 12x18 images can then be matted and framed to 18x24 which gives a 3 1/8" border all around.  The 11x14 prints can be matted and framed to 12x16, giving 2 1/8" borders all around. 

Working with standard paper, image, and frame sizes is a PITA. 

Regarding the A2 paper size, choices are very limited here in the US.  All the European manufactures make them, but finding them in the US is a different story.  It looks like Moab may be a potential source, if you can find the paper type that you like.

Patrick

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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2017, 06:55:03 am »

Canon PRO-1000 cannot print roll. The longest sheet it can accept in it's driver settings is 64.77cm. The sheet can be longer. It just ejects it at the end. Actual printed area is 64cm (or a little less) because the driver forces some minor margins in non standard sheet sizes, that means it cannot print borderless on not standard sizes.

EDIT: Longest printed area 63.96cm

It looks like Canon still goes the safe way on the print margins; http://ugp01.c-ij.com/ij/webmanual/Manual/All/PRO-1000%20series/EN/BG/bg-092.html

So could this be correct;

17" roll cut in lengths for FF image ratio maxim out to:

65cm    25.6",  63x42 cm image size with the least print margins, about 7mm. Unsafe Canon margins.
69cm    27.2",  61.5x41 cm image size and 2.5 cm margins at the short sides, 1.2 cm at the long sides. Safe Canon margins.
62.3cm 24.5",  57.3x38.2 cm image size and 2.5 cm margins all around. Safe Canon margins.

All longer than A2 sheets, one longer sheet than the driver allows but printers have to be fooled anyway.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots


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pearlstreet

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 02:03:30 pm »

3:2 prints on A2 with a 36mm white margin all around.

16x24 on 17x25 looks pretty crappy unless you're going to mount/mat/frame it, in my experience.

Not sure what else you would do besides frame it at this size? I frame that size all the time, don't need a larger margin. I'm getting really peeved at these paper companies for not offering 17x25.
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patjoja

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Re: Finding A2 paper size in the US
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 04:27:21 pm »

Not sure what else you would do besides frame it at this size? I frame that size all the time, don't need a larger margin. I'm getting really peeved at these paper companies for not offering 17x25.

Exactly.  It is frustrating regarding all the different 'standards' sizes, but look at the history and it becomes easier to understand.  If you frame your own work or take it to a custom framer than it's not that hard to overcome.  The problem is when a customer wants a 'standard' size print so they can buy a frame and mat off the shelf, and just slap it together.  It doesn't always work well that way.

Patrick
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