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Author Topic: Lightroom Issues and Questions  (Read 5374 times)

Kevin Raber

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Lightroom Issues and Questions
« on: October 20, 2017, 11:21:21 AM »

This topic is a good place where everyone experiencing issues or questions can post.  Rather than start a dozen different topics, let's try one for all versions of Lightroom (new version).  Share your experiences updating, using the two different versions and if you have solutions, by all means, share them here.  If you are using a mobile device and run into questions or issues share them here too. Hopefully, our forum members may be able to help. 

Please make sure you state your computer platform, Operating system, and information like that.

Thanks.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 01:08:49 PM »

I have questions. No issues really. Running a Macpro with Sierra, MacBook Pro same OS. Photoshop, Lightroom CC and Classic all updated smoothly. No worries. 

PS needed colour settings changed to my preferred setting, Classic did its upgrade on the catalogue thing. Substantially faster and the colour range and luminosity limiters are very good. I see lots of uses for those tools.

LR CC is where the questions arise. Did a trial and imported files into the catalogue. I assume itís a catalogue still. If it is where is it? I wasnít asked for a location. It canít be on the cloud because I can access all the images and do edits when offline. Does it create smart previews? Im thinking I will use this program. I do a fair amount on social media. Itís becoming quite profitable for me. I donít get why you say you canít process without a histogram Kevin. If the image is meant for a screen then trust your eyes. Like we did in a darkroom. Histograms, numbers, cmyk profiles, dot gain curves, thatís all great and fun when printing or sending stuff to printers but when the final destination is a phone screen who cares about histograms and that stuff. I think thatís the point. LRcc is not for print. Think Instagram, Websites and so on.

I spent July in China. Next time I do a trip like that I will find a fast connection in Beijing or wherever  and use LRCC on my laptop to upload all the images to the cloud. Then I can edit and do all the rest on my phone and keep in contact with clients via Instagram. When I get home I assume I can download the files from the cloud if I need. Is that correct? I also assume I can get more space? What will it cost? I kind of like the idea of a backup in the cloud. I bet Harvey wiped out more data than has ever been lost in the cloud. It wonít be my only backup but I am going to set it up I think. I think if you are chucking money into a hobby all this can become expensive but if photography is your profession the Adobe subscription is nickels and dimes.

Early days and I have stuff to figure out. No point wishing things to be a certain way. Better to figure out how to gain an advantage with whatís on offer. Things change. New opportunities arise.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 02:10:20 PM »

Fundamentally the LRCC catalogue is in the cloud, Martin, but also notice in your Pictures folder a file called Lightroom Library.lrlibrary. This is the local version of it. If you delete this Lightroom Library.lrlibrary and you reopen LRCC, Lightroom Library.lrlibrary will be rebuilt from the cloud.

LRCC normally uploads your originals and keeps smart previews locally. How much disc space is retained for local copies of your originals is controlled in Preferences.

"When I get home I assume I can download the files from the cloud if I need. Is that correct?"

In a pure LRCC workflow, why would you? The idea is that you leave originals up in the cloud. But there is a menu command to save copies of the originals down to your computer (or open your LR "Classic" synced catalogue which always downloads the originals).

One thing I would strongly recommend is that you never delete any files in LRCC - the only exception is if you know you already have a backup of those originals.

The reason is that in a pure LRCC / LRM / LRW workflow (no "Classic") the original is up in the cloud. If you delete a photo, you get a message saying deletion is "Undoable" which it means what it says - the file is deleted. There is no way to recover the file. It's gone, forever.

Instead of deleting a photo in LRCC, create a collection called Trash and move the photo into it. Never delete.

Hopefully Adobe will fix this, maybe like Dropbox which retains backup copies of deleted files for a period.

You may know that LRCC was known as Nimbus when it was first shown a year ago. While I am sure Adobe were referring to the cloud, unfortunately I think of it as "Not In My Back Up System".....

Anyone saying "wow"?

John


« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:17:36 PM by john beardsworth »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 02:24:44 PM »

Thanks John. Thatís very helpful.

The reason I would download the files from the cloud is if anything went wrong on the road and I lost my images. I also donít intend going with a totally cloud workflow. I still want to print and work on images in PS. I see a split workflow at the moment. I like that idea actually.

Another question then, Iím not trying to score points or argue here, I just want to understand. Why would you not use the cloud as a backup? Iím not saying my only backup but instead of a third drive that I currently store off site why not just put it in the cloud? Seems to me another option, spreads the risk. I have bought a ton of kindle books over the years. I never keep copies locally. Amazon never lost one. I keep all my music that I ripped from cdís in appleís cloud. Works like a charm. I am about to do the same with my photographs.

And thanks John.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 02:44:25 PM »


Another question then, Iím not trying to score points or argue here, I just want to understand. Why would you not use the cloud as a backup? Iím not saying my only backup but instead of a third drive that I currently store off site why not just put it in the cloud? Seems to me another option, spreads the risk. I have bought a ton of kindle books over the years. I never keep copies locally. Amazon never lost one. I keep all my music that I ripped from cdís in appleís cloud. Works like a charm. I am about to do the same with my photographs.
Shop around to find out what the most cost effective way to store things in the cloud is.  I settled on Amazon Simple Storage which is inexpensive and I use NovaBACKUP as the client.  Depending on the speed of your internet connection and the size of the your image library the initial back up my take several days to do.
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rdonson

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 02:52:49 PM »

Thanks, John. For me I see no benefit for LrCC and will move forward with the Classic version. I may be wrong but I see many ways that managing a catalog (library/database) in two locations could wreak havoc.  My current backup strategy has worked well for several years.
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Regards,
Ron

john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 02:57:39 PM »

I know Adobe are marketing LRCC as backing up your photos in the cloud. In a sense it is doing that, since they are securely stored and you can lose your laptop once the originals are uploaded! But LRCC isn't a backup service like Amazon and the uploaded photos aren't backups - they are now your originals as far as LRCC is concerned. LRCC will only be cataloguing those cloud-resident files. Once you know a file has uploaded, you could even delete the local copy of it and LRCC would not care. If you retain local copies of those files, which I think you would, those local files are your backup copies.

I hope that is clear, Martin. It's taken me a while to explain it as clearly (or not) as I have!

By the way, one neat new feature is that you open synced photos directly in Photoshop.

John

john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 03:03:38 PM »

Thanks, John. For me I see no benefit for LrCC and will move forward with the Classic version. I may be wrong but I see many ways that managing a catalog (library/database) in two locations could wreak havoc.  My current backup strategy has worked well for several years.

The day I first saw LR Mobile, Ron, I asked if I could run it on my laptop and that's what LRCC is for me. At this time I wouldn't suggest it to someone who is happy with "Classic".

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 03:15:43 PM »

Food for thought. Thanks John.

I am in the process of upgrading my connectivity and need to consider all options. This LR change has happened at the same time Iím looking at where it can assist me. For now Iím running classic of course but I expect to find a place for CC. These names are awful by the way.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 03:48:52 PM »

I wish Adobe would consider increasing the two-activations-per-license limit for the "Classic" product or, either alternatively or in addition, retrofit Lightroom 6 before the end-of-support date to function with process version 4.

In addition to my subscription, which I use on a desktop computer and a laptop, I license a standalone copy of LR 6, which I use solely to drive a printer in a different location than the machines where I do my post-processing.  My printing workflow is a little convoluted and depends on custom automation that I wrote so I'll spare everyone the details, but suffice it to say that it requires all instances of Lightroom to be able to use the same catalogs, and that the standalone copy is only used to transmit previously soft-proofed images to the printer.

Of course, I know I can deactivate the license on one machine and activate it on another, but that's a nuisance.  And I'm not keen on purchasing another LR/PS subscription for a machine on which I never do any editing.

Damon Lynch

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 03:55:31 PM »

My question has nothing to do with the OS or other technical matters: what happens to a customer's original files if they knowingly or through simple ignorance violate Adobe terms of service?

Recently a naive friend of mine shared a horrific account of what can go wrong. Upon the birth of her first child, she had opened a Facebook account for her infant, using the platform as a repository for all the photos and videos she had taken of her infant. From her perspective, it functioned as a single place where she could keep them so that "when he grows up he will have memories"; she also used it to share the photos and videos with select others. The child is now three. Facebook recently informed her, via a form email, that they were going to delete the account because she had violated their terms of service, which states you cannot open a Facebook account on behalf of somebody who is under 13. As Facebook put it, "As a result, this account has been scheduled for permanent deletion. This decision is final and can't be appealed." Because she had no backups, she lost all of the photos and videos she had of her firstborn's first three years (it's not clear to me why she was unable to download them before they were deleted).

Adobe's service will have many millions of users. As sure as the sun comes up tomorrow, some of them will violate the terms of service, whether through ignorance, naÔvetť, stupidity, foolishness, maliciousness, or even plain misfortune. Will their files consequently be permanently deleted when Adobe detects their violation? I suspect (but am not certain) that Adobe is currently legally within their rights to simply wipe the user's files, as Facebook did to my friend's files.

Yikes.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 11:53:03 PM »

I would never trust my images to one back up in one place or even one type of backup. Multiple locations, multiple drives, multiple types if you can. In the past I used drives and blue ray discs. Discs are over and the info has migrated onto drives. I plan on using cloud backups as an additional type location. Perhaps Adobe. We will see
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Scott Hein

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 02:22:21 PM »

I have a CC subscription that I use for photo editing and other graphics/desktop publishing activities on computers at my office and at home.  I also have LR6 with a perpetual license on a MacBook Pro that I use for travel.  I don't do "heavy" editing on the road, so LR6 will likely be perfectly adequate for the foreseeable future.  When I return from a trip I "Export as Catalog" from the MBP and "Import from Another Catalog" on my main desktop editing computer.   Does anyone have any insight/thoughts on how viable this approach will be with future versions of LR CC Classic?  I would assume (hope) that since LR would need to have  the ability to import older versions of catalogs when users upgrade, that "Import from Another Catalog" would also have this ability.  Of course there is also the issue of compatibility of LR6 with future versions of OS-X...

-Scott
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Chris Kern

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 07:18:16 PM »

I don't do "heavy" editing on the road, so LR6 will likely be perfectly adequate for the foreseeable future.  When I return from a trip I "Export as Catalog" from [Lightroom 6] and "Import from Another Catalog" on my main desktop editing computer.   Does anyone have any insight/thoughts on how viable this approach will be with future versions of LR CC Classic?  I would assume (hope) that since LR would need to have  the ability to import older versions of catalogs when users upgrade, that "Import from Another Catalog" would also have this ability.

Yes: you can export a catalog from Lightroom 6 and import that catalog into Lightroom Classic.  I also use an instance of LR6 in addition to my Adobe subscription, so one of the first things I did after installing the new rev of the desktop product was to verify this experimentally.

You cannot move catalogs in the other direction.  Even if you downgrade all the images to be exported from Lightroom Classic to process Version 3 (2012), the catalog file cannot be parsed by Lightroom 6.

It would certainly be helpful to those of us with both flavors of Lightroom CC/6 licenses if Adobe would update the standalone version before LR6 support ends to read the newer catalog format.  (Obviously, I'm assuming all the images in an exported catalog would have been downgraded to process Version 3 prior to export from Lightroom Classic.)

tomnash

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 10:27:39 PM »

When syncing an image to both Classic and CC (or Mobile) and making develop adjustments (not simultaneously) in both, it is not clear how the additional capabilities in Classic (Camera Calibration, curves,...) are handled by CC.

For example, suppose I change Camera Calibration from Adobe Standard to Camera Landscape in Classic, is this maintained as the base when I later work in CC or on an iPad? What is the unstated Camera Calibration in CC? Is it Adobe Standard?

The question gets even more complicated if you change to an earlier process version of Camera Calibration in Classic and then move to CC.

Similarly, if one changes the curves in Classic, what happens in CC?

Does anyone have a definitive answer to this knowable unknown?

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Hoggy

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 11:36:19 PM »

Like Tomnash, I also wonder about the interoperability between Classic and CC.  I haven't really seen anything yet about it, but then again I have absolutely zero interest in using LR-cc.

But another thing..  Has anyone else seen that they're catalog size is now less than half after conversion of their previous catalog?  My 2015.x catalog was 1.2 GB - the same converted LR-classic catalog is now 514MB.
What gives??
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Schewe

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2017, 12:57:33 AM »

But another thing..  Has anyone else seen that they're catalog size is now less than half after conversion of their previous catalog?  My 2015.x catalog was 1.2 GB - the same converted LR-classic catalog is now 514MB.
What gives??

The catalog format has been upgraded. The catalog size will shrink because some values are being compressed to improve performance. The upgraded catalog cannot be opened in Lightroom CC 2015 or Lightroom 6.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2017, 04:24:17 AM »

I decided to upgrade to the 1TB storage option. An extra $5 a month. Letís see how it works out. Options available for 1,2,5 or 10TB. One way or another I will find a way to make this work for me and try to find a way to gain some advantage with it. Sorry guys but itís the future and it wonít go away. I have a lot of friends who are ex photographers because they didnít keep up.

It all looked a bit complicated to start with but itís no biggie really. You need to start with a decent photograph that has something interesting to say. That at least is still the same
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William Walker

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2017, 05:49:22 AM »

I must say, I am a little disappointed in the new Lightroom Classic: after hearing how it was going to be so much quicker, it seems to me that the Spot Removal Tool has slowed down... and loading images in the Develop Module does not seem to have improved either.

Wayne Fox

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Re: Lightroom Issues and Questions
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 10:38:39 AM »

Does installing Classic remove LR 2015?  If so, is there a way to install classic to test and retain LR 2015, or does installing Classic also remove 2015 preferences and settings etc.
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