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Author Topic: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7  (Read 49615 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #200 on: October 21, 2017, 06:17:40 pm »

Mark, the restriction is on going into the module. Edit In will work without doing so.

I'm pretty certain of this, and did test it for myself in the past. As I feel I know the answer, I'm not willing to test it again.

OK that's good to have confirmed. And no, I wasn't suggesting that YOU in particular test this - I had in mind any person who had cancelled their LR subscription plan. This may be of comfort to some people but I would find it unsatisfactory as I am really enjoying the merits of the raw workflow.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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john beardsworth

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #201 on: October 21, 2017, 06:30:42 pm »

I know you weren't singling me out, but I am pretty certain that I have precisely stated the restrictions. But it would be interesting to hear from anyone who has cancelled - testing is one thing, doing it is another. And you never know what detail the bastards changed when you weren't looking.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #202 on: October 21, 2017, 06:42:03 pm »

................And you never know what detail the bastards changed when you weren't looking.

Or sometimes even if you were  :-)
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #203 on: October 21, 2017, 08:41:26 pm »

Whatever access they give you today after canceling your subscription, doesn't mean you'll have tomorrow. Look what  they changed in "classic" after making promises.

hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #204 on: October 21, 2017, 09:19:39 pm »

Whatever access they give you today after canceling your subscription, doesn't mean you'll have tomorrow. Look what  they changed in "classic" after making promises.

Show me one product that guarantees anything in the future. Seems like all you are doing is just looking at the situation with a glass half empty. Maybe best to focus on your new plans rather than constantly complain...might be more productive for you.
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Hoggy

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #205 on: October 21, 2017, 09:29:17 pm »

Show me one product that guarantees anything in the future. Seems like all you are doing is just looking at the situation with a glass half empty. Maybe best to focus on your new plans rather than constantly complain...might be more productive for you.
................
Are you secretly paid by Adobe to defend them no matter what is said?  I sincerely apologize if not, but it just tends to come across that way in these threads of late...   ;D 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:47:51 pm by Hoggy »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #206 on: October 21, 2017, 09:35:53 pm »

This is the point at which this thread risks closure because personal attacks are coming into play. In the interest of the standards of discussion members of this foreign would like to see maintained, I suggest you stop it and get back to the issues. That said, as far as I can tell, there's not much more to be said about this topic. It's been picked over to death.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Hoggy

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #207 on: October 21, 2017, 09:39:42 pm »

It's been picked over to death.
Yeah, I tend to agree..  I'm rather exhausted, myself.   :)
...........
But whatever might or might not happen in the future regarding Classic and CC, I would at least hope the option always remains to keep all your images local.
 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 10:01:19 pm by Hoggy »
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Rhossydd

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #208 on: October 22, 2017, 03:54:52 am »

Show me one product that guarantees anything in the future. Seems like all you are doing is just looking at the situation with a glass half empty. Maybe best to focus on your new plans rather than constantly complain...might be more productive for you.
What you're failing to understand here is that lots of people have lost any trust they had in Adobe.
It shouldn't really come as a shock, they've been messing around customers since the chaos of the upgrade policy back at CS4.

They're just out to screw as much money out of people as possible with no loyalty to customers in return.

LR 6 & PS CS4 are a great products I'll continue to use, but I don't want subscription software and I don't trust Adobe, so if they stop working sometime in the future I'll just find other solutions. Affinity is already a replacement for PS, CO can be for LR, maybe even better products will arrive before LR6 stops working.

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hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #209 on: October 22, 2017, 08:32:49 am »

What you're failing to understand here is that lots of people have lost any trust they had in Adobe.
It shouldn't really come as a shock, they've been messing around customers since the chaos of the upgrade policy back at CS4.

They're just out to screw as much money out of people as possible with no loyalty to customers in return.

LR 6 & PS CS4 are a great products I'll continue to use, but I don't want subscription software and I don't trust Adobe, so if they stop working sometime in the future I'll just find other solutions. Affinity is already a replacement for PS, CO can be for LR, maybe even better products will arrive before LR6 stops working.

Everyone has to make decisions that are right for them. What you must realize is that many are very happy with their Adobe tools and just use them day in, day out. I personally don't feel Adobe screwed me and if or when they do, I'll just look at a different solution without doing a bunch of whining on the net.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2017, 09:10:01 am »

Everyone has to make decisions that are right for them. What you must realize is that many are very happy with their Adobe tools and just use them day in, day out. I personally don't feel Adobe screwed me and if or when they do, I'll just look at a different solution without doing a bunch of whining on the net.

I don't feel screwed either, and I mention this because my situation is probably the same as that of a great many other customers. If I remember correctly, when we were on the 18-month upgrade cycle of perpetual licenses, Photoshop was about USD 200~250 to upgrade, and LR another USD 80. So round-figures about USD 300/18 months, or 16.67/month. Now I'm paying 9.95/month, so it's actually a good bit cheaper with room to spare in case I'm over-stating those old upgrade costs (but I think not). This is the most fair comparison to make - the cost of being to date on the old versus the new schemes. It is not an apples to apples comparison to add the variable of "not wanting to be up-to-date". That of course is another option one had with perpetual licenses, but it becomes an apples to oranges comparison because it throws in that extra variable of choice whether to upgrade. My experience was always to upgrade (after a settling-down period) because there have always been enough attractive new features or performance improvements with each release to make it worthwhile.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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pegelli

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #211 on: October 23, 2017, 02:56:10 am »

I don't feel screwed either, and I mention this because my situation is probably the same as that of a great many other customers. If I remember correctly, when we were on the 18-month upgrade cycle of perpetual licenses, Photoshop was about USD 200~250 to upgrade, and LR another USD 80. So round-figures about USD 300/18 months, or 16.67/month. Now I'm paying 9.95/month, so it's actually a good bit cheaper with room to spare in case I'm over-stating those old upgrade costs (but I think not). This is the most fair comparison to make - the cost of being to date on the old versus the new schemes. It is not an apples to apples comparison to add the variable of "not wanting to be up-to-date". That of course is another option one had with perpetual licenses, but it becomes an apples to oranges comparison because it throws in that extra variable of choice whether to upgrade. My experience was always to upgrade (after a settling-down period) because there have always been enough attractive new features or performance improvements with each release to make it worthwhile.
Mark, I think your economic analysis is right for Lightroom + Photoshop. However if it's Lightroom only (I use CS3 and it's more than enough for the very few PS tweaks I do) the 18 month upgrade cycle cost is much cheaper than the subscription. (75 vs ~180 €). If they would have a Lightroom only subscription for 3 €/month I might be tempted.

I also don't feel screwed, Adobe can sell/lease their product as they see fit. It's up to us as customers to vote with our feet whether we can support their sales model or not. My only beef with them is that their communication is very poor, mostly BS and certainly not forthright.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #212 on: October 23, 2017, 07:31:26 am »

Mark, I think your economic analysis is right for Lightroom + Photoshop. However if it's Lightroom only (I use CS3 and it's more than enough for the very few PS tweaks I do) the 18 month upgrade cycle cost is much cheaper than the subscription. (75 vs ~180 €). If they would have a Lightroom only subscription for 3 €/month I might be tempted.

I also don't feel screwed, Adobe can sell/lease their product as they see fit. It's up to us as customers to vote with our feet whether we can support their sales model or not. My only beef with them is that their communication is very poor, mostly BS and certainly not forthright.
This is my thinking as well, particularly when one can by a stand alone license for Affinity Photo.  I would gladly have a LR Classic only subscription.
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hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #213 on: October 23, 2017, 09:17:22 am »

So it comes down to a money issue? I always thought the subscription was the real issue. Surely you can dig deep and find the extra money to support your hobby, your passion. I'm retired and have no income coming in but I'd rather give up my coffee...which equates to a lot more than $10/month, or give up the glass or two of wine ever so often than to give up my Adobe subscription. I get much more enjoyment out of my hobby than I do that cup of coffee.

Money like time is all a priority of how you spend them. I would think if you analyze where your money is sent, you would find an area that eats $10/month that is less of a priority for you...and just move that money to the adobe subscription.
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pegelli

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #214 on: October 23, 2017, 09:32:59 am »

So it comes down to a money issue? I always thought the subscription was the real issue. Surely you can dig deep and find the extra money to support your hobby, your passion. I'm retired and have no income coming in but I'd rather give up my coffee...which equates to a lot more than $10/month, or give up the glass or two of wine ever so often than to give up my Adobe subscription. I get much more enjoyment out of my hobby than I do that cup of coffee.

Money like time is all a priority of how you spend them. I would think if you analyze where your money is sent, you would find an area that eats $10/month that is less of a priority for you...and just move that money to the adobe subscription.
Everything is a money issue, I'm really surprised you are only now realizing that. The 1$ for LuLa is a money issue (which I happily pay). 10$ per month of which ~75% is for something I don't need and would not use is too much, especially if stopping the subscription also disables the 25% I would probably have continued need for. Allthough my resources are limited I would not have to stop any coffee or wine to pay for an Adobe subscription, but I just think the current deal doesn't meet my cost/benefit hurdle and the problems I would encounter after stopping the subscription seriously weigh on the benefit side of that equation.

In the past assuming an 18 month upgrade cycle I paid a little ove 4€/month average (forgetting the 30 month upgrade cycle from 6 to 7) but I always have the choice of at some point stopping the upgrades and still retaining full functionality of what I had. So a subscription would have to be cheaper than that since I'm losing a major portion of the functionality when I stop.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 09:37:38 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #215 on: October 23, 2017, 09:50:24 am »

This is my thinking as well, particularly when one can by a stand alone license for Affinity Photo.  I would gladly have a LR Classic only subscription.
Me too.
Thanks for expressing my thoughts so well Pieter and Alan.

And yes: at my stage in life money is an issue, as I expect it is for many of us amateurs who have been loyal Adobe users since well before CS1.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #216 on: October 23, 2017, 12:40:56 pm »

It's not about whether you could afford it. It's about getting overcharged and locked into a product that is difficult to get out of once you've been with it for a while.  You feel like someone's twisting your arm, like you have a sword hanging over your neck. 

Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #217 on: October 23, 2017, 01:08:59 pm »

It's not about whether you could afford it. It's about getting overcharged and locked into a product that is difficult to get out of once you've been with it for a while.  You feel like someone's twisting your arm, like you have a sword hanging over your neck.

Over-charged relative to what? What is the objective criterion by which you know you are being "over-charged"?

BTW, it is not difficult to get out of. There are several ways of doing this, as others have explained. But if you don't like it, you don't need to get into it in the first place.

I just don't see where the arm-twisting is or what sword is hanging over our necks. They have a product, those are the terms on which they are selling it; buy it if you like it, don't buy it if you don't, or think you can do better without. It's kind of that simple.

(typo corrected)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:53:52 am by Mark D Segal »
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #218 on: October 23, 2017, 01:33:37 pm »

It's not about whether you could afford it. It's about getting overcharged and locked into a product that is difficult to get out of once you've been with it for a while.  You feel like someone's twisting your arm, like you have a sword hanging over your neck.
Seriously?

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Tibor O

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #219 on: October 23, 2017, 01:51:33 pm »

They have a product, those are the terms on which they are selling it; buy it if you like it, don't buy it if you don't, or think you can do better without. It's kind of that simple.

I agree.

I think this article is good in stating other available options Best pro photo-editing software apps for Mac

I left Lightroom early on. I bought Lightroom 1 and upgraded to Lightroom 2 then switched to C1. For retouching I still use Photoshop CS3 that is still good enough for my needs, but most of the work I do in C1 (I am on version 9). If / when macOS (I am still on El Capitan on my Mac Pro) will no longer support CS3 I will most likely switch to Affinity Photo for pixel based retouching but maybe C1 (also a mature software like Lightroom) will at that time be able to handle that too (wishful thinking). For printing I use Mirage that uses Adobe Color Matching Module.

In my opinion we spend way too much time "on the hunt" because of all the available choice. Please see this TED talk from a philosopher from my country to see what I mean: Our unhealthy obsession with choice

My point being stick with what works best for you until it works and does a good job for the price that is right for you.
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