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Author Topic: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7  (Read 49578 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #120 on: October 19, 2017, 03:50:09 pm »

Curious.  Why don't camera manufacturers provide a standard RAW interface code so you don't have to upgrade your editing program every time they release a new camera? 

IanSeward

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #121 on: October 19, 2017, 03:51:19 pm »

First, they came for the Aperture users.  But I wasn't an Aperture user, so I didn't care...

Then, they came for the Lr 6 users, but I subscribe to CC, so I didn't care...

etc.

(tongue in cheek, by the way)

Funny!
Ian
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #122 on: October 19, 2017, 03:54:27 pm »

Alan, when they stop supporting local processing between one section of my hard drive and another, that is the day I move on to something else. I'm not worried about it. There will always be options and enough transition time to manage the changeovers.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #123 on: October 19, 2017, 03:55:58 pm »

Curious.  Why don't camera manufacturers provide a standard RAW interface code so you don't have to upgrade your editing program every time they release a new camera?

That's also a marketing game, and why Adobe developed the DNG format.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #124 on: October 19, 2017, 03:59:45 pm »

That's also a marketing game, and why Adobe developed the DNG format.
And only Leica AFAIK adopted DNG for output; all the other mfrs stayed with proprietary formats for RAW files.
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Ethan Hansen

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #125 on: October 19, 2017, 04:02:35 pm »

Or their servers get hacked and your stuff is "appropriated",

Luckily Adobe has proved they know how to secure their systems. Oh. Wait. They haven't. Good point. Perhaps Adobe can explain why a photography business should feel comfortable storing their second most valuable assets - after the photographers themselves - with a company whose approach to security (Flash or Acrobat anyone?) has been lackadaisical at best.

I suspect, for the market theatre aiming at with the new “LR CC” they needed a new, simpler design.  A PhD system, as in Push Here Dummy.  Time will tell if they meet their objective. 

And there, I suspect, is where the friction between Adobe's approach and working photographers arises. Lightroom's beginning was promising, coming as a single application that could work with the proprietary RAW formats foisted off by each camera vendor. It was a breath of fresh air after the horrors of Nikon Capture, etc. The pro digital market pales in comparison to the prosumer, hence the approach John aptly calls PhD.

I am less concerned about the SAAS subscription approach Adobe looks to use - that's proven too profitable to resist - than I am with the forced cloud uploads and the implicit assumption that your images are only rented from Adobe. If you are using Lightroom to review, cull, and process images from a commercial shoot the last thing one typically wants is cloud storage. 1TB of storage space? A single shoot can fill that and then some. Even assuming you have screaming on location internet speeds please explain why I want to transfer thousands of images to Adobe that will quickly prove useless or redundant.

I just hope another developer sees and quickly exploits the tremendous opportunity Adobe has handed them.

Ethan Hansen

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #126 on: October 19, 2017, 04:09:21 pm »

Unless I missed it on this thread nobody addresses the other advantage of cloud computing - performance. Adobe can provide very powerful image processing by rendering images in their server farms. Scott McNeil's dictum "the network is the computer" is real now. This has the potential to offer performance gains not achievable on your average desktop.

Perhaps. Investigate the cost of purchasing the processing equivalent of a reasonably well equipped image editing computer as a cloud service with AWS, Google, or Azure. It isn't cheap. The main benefit is if you are running applications that scale well, require many processing nodes, and have a well defined workflow. Optimizing single images does not fit with this paradigm.

john beardsworth

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #127 on: October 19, 2017, 04:10:13 pm »

And only Leica AFAIK adopted DNG for output; all the other mfrs stayed with proprietary formats for RAW files.

Pentax too.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2017, 04:12:44 pm »

Luckily Adobe has proved they know how to secure their systems. Oh. Wait. They haven't. Good point. Perhaps Adobe can explain why a photography business should feel comfortable storing their second most valuable assets - after the photographers themselves - with a company whose approach to security (Flash or Acrobat anyone?) has been lackadaisical at best.

And there, I suspect, is where the friction between Adobe's approach and working photographers arises. Lightroom's beginning was promising, coming as a single application that could work with the proprietary RAW formats foisted off by each camera vendor. It was a breath of fresh air after the horrors of Nikon Capture, etc. The pro digital market pales in comparison to the prosumer, hence the approach John aptly calls PhD.

I am less concerned about the SAAS subscription approach Adobe looks to use - that's proven too profitable to resist - than I am with the forced cloud uploads and the implicit assumption that your images are only rented from Adobe. If you are using Lightroom to review, cull, and process images from a commercial shoot the last thing one typically wants is cloud storage. 1TB of storage space? A single shoot can fill that and then some. Even assuming you have screaming on location internet speeds please explain why I want to transfer thousands of images to Adobe that will quickly prove useless or redundant.

I just hope another developer sees and quickly exploits the tremendous opportunity Adobe has handed them.

It's useful to not conflate two separate issues here: (A) Cloud Computing and (B) the subscription model. (B) is here to stay whether you use the Cloud service or not, and as long as the Classic version of the application remains available, we may continue to use it, paying nothing if it is LR6 (but no upgrades), and a monthly fee if subscribed to the latest classic version on the subscription plan.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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pearlstreet

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #129 on: October 19, 2017, 04:18:32 pm »

Luckily Adobe has proved they know how to secure their systems. Oh. Wait. They haven't. Good point. Perhaps Adobe can explain why a photography business should feel comfortable storing their second most valuable assets - after the photographers themselves - with a company whose approach to security (Flash or Acrobat anyone?) has been lackadaisical at best.

And there, I suspect, is where the friction between Adobe's approach and working photographers arises. Lightroom's beginning was promising, coming as a single application that could work with the proprietary RAW formats foisted off by each camera vendor. It was a breath of fresh air after the horrors of Nikon Capture, etc. The pro digital market pales in comparison to the prosumer, hence the approach John aptly calls PhD.

I am less concerned about the SAAS subscription approach Adobe looks to use - that's proven too profitable to resist - than I am with the forced cloud uploads and the implicit assumption that your images are only rented from Adobe. If you are using Lightroom to review, cull, and process images from a commercial shoot the last thing one typically wants is cloud storage. 1TB of storage space? A single shoot can fill that and then some. Even assuming you have screaming on location internet speeds please explain why I want to transfer thousands of images to Adobe that will quickly prove useless or redundant.

I just hope another developer sees and quickly exploits the tremendous opportunity Adobe has handed them.

Agree 100%.
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jrsforums

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2017, 04:24:27 pm »

Luckily Adobe has proved they know how to secure their systems. Oh. Wait. They haven't. Good point. Perhaps Adobe can explain why a photography business should feel comfortable storing their second most valuable assets - after the photographers themselves - with a company whose approach to security (Flash or Acrobat anyone?) has been lackadaisical at best.

And there, I suspect, is where the friction between Adobe's approach and working photographers arises. Lightroom's beginning was promising, coming as a single application that could work with the proprietary RAW formats foisted off by each camera vendor. It was a breath of fresh air after the horrors of Nikon Capture, etc. The pro digital market pales in comparison to the prosumer, hence the approach John aptly calls PhD.

I am less concerned about the SAAS subscription approach Adobe looks to use - that's proven too profitable to resist - than I am with the forced cloud uploads and the implicit assumption that your images are only rented from Adobe. If you are using Lightroom to review, cull, and process images from a commercial shoot the last thing one typically wants is cloud storage. 1TB of storage space? A single shoot can fill that and then some. Even assuming you have screaming on location internet speeds please explain why I want to transfer thousands of images to Adobe that will quickly prove useless or redundant.

I just hope another developer sees and quickly exploits the tremendous opportunity Adobe has handed them.

Ethan, the point is that no one is forced to go to the cloud version.  Also, it is for a different market the the photog who fills up 1TB in a single shoot.
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John

hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #131 on: October 19, 2017, 05:20:16 pm »

Until they stop supporting it as they have LR6 stand alone!!! ;D ;D

How long do you want them to support it without you paying a dime?
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hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #132 on: October 19, 2017, 05:22:14 pm »

Luckily Adobe has proved they know how to secure their systems. Oh. Wait. They haven't. Good point. Perhaps Adobe can explain why a photography business should feel comfortable storing their second most valuable assets - after the photographers themselves - with a company whose approach to security (Flash or Acrobat anyone?) has been lackadaisical at best.



Well haven't credit card companies and banks been hacked into and identify stolen. I suppose you don't use a bank nor a credit card, huh?
I would think credit card companies and banks should have much higher security in place than Adobe subscriptions.
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hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #133 on: October 19, 2017, 05:25:50 pm »


I am less concerned about the SAAS subscription approach Adobe looks to use - that's proven too profitable to resist - than I am with the forced cloud uploads and the implicit assumption that your images are only rented from Adobe. If you are using Lightroom to review, cull, and process images from a commercial shoot the last thing one typically wants is cloud storage. 1TB of storage space? A single shoot can fill that and then some. Even assuming you have screaming on location internet speeds please explain why I want to transfer thousands of images to Adobe that will quickly prove useless or redundant.

I just hope another developer sees and quickly exploits the tremendous opportunity Adobe has handed them.

Again...Adobe is NOT forcing you to store anything off of your own hard drive. They give you an option...just like you have today if you want to use some of the cloud storage that is out there for your backups. Why don't people read what Adobe is providing before lambasting them.
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Ethan Hansen

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #134 on: October 19, 2017, 05:55:20 pm »

Again...Adobe is NOT forcing you to store anything off of your own hard drive. They give you an option...just like you have today if you want to use some of the cloud storage that is out there for your backups. Why don't people read what Adobe is providing before lambasting them.

What Adobe is currently providing in the form of reading is 404 errors for almost all Lightroom CC FAQ pages except for the home page marketing fluff. Installing the new version, perusing the EULA and all on-disk documentation consistently shows that (1) Cloud storage is not optional (2) images automatically are uploaded upon import and (3) Adobe is even thoughtful enough to let you keep local versions of each image after upload.

Adobe is lambasting itself.

John: True enough Adobe is not forcing anyone to upgrade. If however, you foresee purchasing a camera made after the last update to the standalone version you likely won't be able to use Lightroom as a one stop shopping image editor. And yes, LR is no longer geared at the pro market. That's exactly what I said in my initial post. Adobe is opening the door to a competitor; my hope is that other vendors seize the chance.

hogloff

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #135 on: October 19, 2017, 07:28:09 pm »

What Adobe is currently providing in the form of reading is 404 errors for almost all Lightroom CC FAQ pages except for the home page marketing fluff. Installing the new version, perusing the EULA and all on-disk documentation consistently shows that (1) Cloud storage is not optional (2) images automatically are uploaded upon import and (3) Adobe is even thoughtful enough to let you keep local versions of each image after upload.


I'm sorry...but you have lost me. Don't know what exactly you are trying to say.
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jrsforums

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #136 on: October 19, 2017, 07:33:13 pm »

He is trying to say he didn’t do due diligence.

Ethan, suggest you read this set of posts from page one.  Follow the links posted.
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John

Ethan Hansen

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2017, 12:22:10 am »

Well John, snotty reply aside, I did read Mr. Hogarty's blog post. It was one of the first sources I checked after reading announcements in the blogosphere. Per the official, Adobe sanctioned blog Lightroom CC is "Cloud Based—Everything you do in Lightroom CC is synced to the cloud. This means that you can access and work with your photos from any device (including multiple computers), and can easily share photos with others. All of your photos and all of the work that you do with them will be automatically backed up all the time."

Unless you have an insight to Adobe's definition of the words Everything, any, and  "all the time" that differ from standard dictionary usage, my read is that Lightroom CC backs up everything to the cloud. All the time.

What little documentation is included in Lightroom CC makes the explicit point that LR is now a cloud-native application. The source image now lives on an Adobe server, with copies distributed to connected devices. File sizes are altered depending on available local storage. If you choose, you can keep full sized versions on a local computer. Cloud uploads ... those ain't optional. I also attempted further due diligence by reading Adobe's site, but as I mentioned above, most of the LR FAQs point to nonexistent pages.

Adobe has accomplished quite a feat. They made LR CC unusable for many people who pay the bills through their images. A combination of unknown security risks, the impossibility of uploading a full shoot of images through an internet connection before the next shoot begins (again, I'm assuming photography is your business rather than just a weekend hobby), and the sheer inefficiency of placing all those images in the cloud is baffling.

We actually do store huge amounts of images in the cloud as it provides redundant backups in case of disaster. If working remotely, pulling files from AWS can also be faster than copying them from our in-house storage. Storage costs are in line with what Adobe charges for LR cloud with the important differences that (1) we only store images that are useful - the vast majority are culled first, and (2) all images are encrypted on before they leave our computers so even if Amazon gets hacked all the bad guy will have are files with 256 random character names that are unreadable.

If your interest in photography is editing your happy snaps then Lightroom CC is a reasonable idea. Good for you. That appears to be where Adobe gauges the market to be and I assume they are correct. That does not mean that a working photographer will feel the same excitement about the direction LR has gone in his or her fizzy bits.

Schewe

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2017, 12:27:29 am »

What little documentation is included in Lightroom CC makes the explicit point that LR is now a cloud-native application. The source image now lives on an Adobe server, with copies distributed to connected devices.

That's what Lightroom CC does–everything is in the cloud. Lightroom Classic CC is the old non-cloud based desktop application that maintains all files locally on the hard drive, not in the cloud.

Two different apps, two different markets. It's very likely that the Lightroom CC app that is cloud based will be of little interest and use for LuLa members.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Bye, Bye Lightroom perpetual licenses .... No Lightroom 7
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2017, 12:36:30 am »

Hi,

You may be a bit negative. For one thing the cloud solution is good enough for billion dollar companies storing essential data, on the other side it gives you full and total backup.

As far as I understand you can still have your files locally and I would pressume that Adobe has put some real work into cashing mechanisms to make the platform workable.

But, we now have Lightroom Classic which is the original concept. Subscription includes both.

Best regards
Erik

Well John, snotty reply aside, I did read Mr. Hogarty's blog post. It was one of the first sources I checked after reading announcements in the blogosphere. Per the official, Adobe sanctioned blog Lightroom CC is "Cloud Based—Everything you do in Lightroom CC is synced to the cloud. This means that you can access and work with your photos from any device (including multiple computers), and can easily share photos with others. All of your photos and all of the work that you do with them will be automatically backed up all the time."

Unless you have an insight to Adobe's definition of the words Everything, any, and  "all the time" that differ from standard dictionary usage, my read is that Lightroom CC backs up everything to the cloud. All the time.

What little documentation is included in Lightroom CC makes the explicit point that LR is now a cloud-native application. The source image now lives on an Adobe server, with copies distributed to connected devices. File sizes are altered depending on available local storage. If you choose, you can keep full sized versions on a local computer. Cloud uploads ... those ain't optional. I also attempted further due diligence by reading Adobe's site, but as I mentioned above, most of the LR FAQs point to nonexistent pages.

Adobe has accomplished quite a feat. They made LR CC unusable for many people who pay the bills through their images. A combination of unknown security risks, the impossibility of uploading a full shoot of images through an internet connection before the next shoot begins (again, I'm assuming photography is your business rather than just a weekend hobby), and the sheer inefficiency of placing all those images in the cloud is baffling.

We actually do store huge amounts of images in the cloud as it provides redundant backups in case of disaster. If working remotely, pulling files from AWS can also be faster than copying them from our in-house storage. Storage costs are in line with what Adobe charges for LR cloud with the important differences that (1) we only store images that are useful - the vast majority are culled first, and (2) all images are encrypted on before they leave our computers so even if Amazon gets hacked all the bad guy will have are files with 256 random character names that are unreadable.

If your interest in photography is editing your happy snaps then Lightroom CC is a reasonable idea. Good for you. That appears to be where Adobe gauges the market to be and I assume they are correct. That does not mean that a working photographer will feel the same excitement about the direction LR has gone in his or her fizzy bits.
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Erik Kaffehr
 
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