Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: More on Sieff  (Read 3458 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
More on Sieff
« on: October 14, 2017, 01:57:56 PM »

Mainly for Grahamby:

It struck me that as a fellow Sieff nut, you may enjoy these links. I number them as per the eponymous book's pagination:

Pg 25.   Ina Balke - an early love/model

https://www.google.es/search?rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&dcr=0&source=hp&q=ina+balke+imagenes&oq=ina+balke+imagenes&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1161.8352.0.11587.20.14.0.0.0.0.546.2117.2j1j3j5-2.8.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..12.6.1975...0i13k1j0i13i30k1j0i19k1j0i13i30i19k1j33i21k1j33i160k1.0.bRWFeYc9Fms

Pg 58.   Nico (She appeared in a cameo rôle in La Dolce Vita

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwKfTkEvMEg

Apparently, the Via Veneto, here depicted, was actually filmed in Cinecittà's studios. What irony, as it was just a couple of klicks away...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1vkiQdEU7M&t=79

Pg 72.   Jill Kennington (squeeze of John Cowan), whose studio was commandeered for the film Blow Up; our lad was right there - just like Helmut...

https://www.google.es/search?rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&dcr=0&source=hp&q=jill+kenni+gton+imagenes&oq=jill+kenni+gton+imagenes&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1350.9528.0.10733.30.29.0.0.0.0.117.2176.26j2.28.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.22.1659...0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j0i19k1j0i8i13i30k1j0i13i30i19k1j0i13i30k1j33i160k1.0.H74uCkpIEMs

Pg 140.   Jane Birkin (Can anyone be in France and not know about her?)

https://www.google.es/search?rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&dcr=0&source=hp&q=jane+birkin+imagenes&oq=jane+birkin+imagenes&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0.1427.6685.0.8518.20.20.0.0.0.0.75.1315.20.20.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.20.1315...0i131k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.xnjnWpOOD4s

Pg 162.   Ingrid Boulting  (A Sarah Moon favourite - for Biba)

https://www.google.es/search?rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&dcr=0&biw=1246&bih=888&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=ngrid+Boulting+imagenes&oq=ngrid+Boulting+imagenes&gs_l=psy-ab.3...135669.141777.0.149501.25.25.0.0.0.0.102.1738.24j1.25.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.14.945...0j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i7i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i7i5i30k1j0i67k1j0i8i13i30k1.0.xgV8dAlP6W8

Pg.   188    Barbara Sieff (Wife)

http://fashionheroines.blogspot.com.es/2010/04/jeanloup-sieffs-wife-interview-by-paris.html

Rob
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 02:36:03 PM by Rob C »
Logged

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10075
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 02:15:04 PM »

Amazing stuff.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 03:32:10 PM »

One of the things that I discovered with the passing years is just how interconnected isolated events really are.

That all of these characters actually come together now, in this new century, when their time was really of the middle of the last, stikes me as poetic, in the sense that achievements of then - as with the tragedies - continue to reverberate for so long, even after they might all have appeared to have been forgotten. Take something perhaps more widely known - The Kiss - and realise that it's likely to be more famous now than during the time of its making. How many current, megabuck productions from the internationals will live for so long? I wonder if any advertising agency records will even exist in fifty years time; maybe everything recent will reside in the "cloud" and one big power disruption will wipe out all trace? I think I'd be inclined to trust paper records a little more.

Glad you took some pleasure form the little list of links; make it worth doing.

;-)

Rob

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
    • Some of my photos
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 10:24:24 AM »

Thanks Rob :-)

To head off on a tangent (as I do...)

...the copy of Lindbergh's book I ordered from Germany finally arrived yesterday. The sriking thing is that all of the bla-bla about rescuing the humanity of his models from under thick make-up and artificial lighting is exactly what I've previously read about Avedon... and Bailey... and Penn. And of course it was also true in spades for Jeanloup or for Doisneau when he was doing advertising shoots for Renault.

So it seems that every few years someone is required to kick over the art-directors' tables and chase them out of the studio, so as to get back to photographing people rather than make-up, and woman who move rather than pose.

Anyway, Peter's book is very impressively thick, moreso than the baby-Sumo... but boy he must have helped along fag sales (that's cigarettes, for those caught between dialects).
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 12:25:17 PM »

Thanks Rob :-)

To head off on a tangent (as I do...)

...the copy of Lindbergh's book I ordered from Germany finally arrived yesterday. The sriking thing is that all of the bla-bla about rescuing the humanity of his models from under thick make-up and artificial lighting is exactly what I've previously read about Avedon... and Bailey... and Penn. And of course it was also true in spades for Jeanloup or for Doisneau when he was doing advertising shoots for Renault.

So it seems that every few years someone is required to kick over the art-directors' tables and chase them out of the studio, so as to get back to photographing people rather than make-up, and woman who move rather than pose.

Anyway, Peter's book is very impressively thick, moreso than the baby-Sumo... but boy he must have helped along fag sales (that's cigarettes, for those caught between dialects).


Which Lindbergh book is it, Graham - he has made a few... I haven't bought any of his yet: this may be the time, what with winter rolling slowly in and all that jazz.

Does it come with a perspex stand too, as with Helmut's? That stand has proven very handy for all the books when I look at them in the office; slouching on the couch, I plop them on top of a cushion on top of my legs. Without that, I'd have no circulation left!

Regarding make-up: I'm not certain that I believe him - they all seem to have at least some eye attention, and I can't really accept that nothing else gets done... he may be "relatively" speaking when he claims to eschew the paintbox.

Rob

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
    • Some of my photos
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 03:55:16 PM »

Hey, I just learned that Nico's birthday was yesterday...

The book is "A different vision on fashion photography." The lack of make-up is clearly relative, but I think the point is that there is still some skin texture visible, even (gasp) a few downy hairs here and there. That seems so trivial except that the modern version appears to be perfectly plastic-smooth.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 02:35:30 PM »

Hey, I just learned that Nico's birthday was yesterday...

The book is "A different vision on fashion photography." The lack of make-up is clearly relative, but I think the point is that there is still some skin texture visible, even (gasp) a few downy hairs here and there. That seems so trivial except that the modern version appears to be perfectly plastic-smooth.

Thanks, Graham - I'll check it out and see what happens next!

Rob

P.S.

Ordered!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 05:12:55 PM by Rob C »
Logged

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
    • Some of my photos
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 03:54:55 AM »

Ordered!

Have to say, it's a pretty impressive photo/€ value...

(even if no perspex stand is included).
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 06:10:30 AM »

Well, the book is promised for Thursday, which is cool, since both my lunch choices are closed that day - every week!

Now, I may have posted this before, but if not, it's interesting in its own right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yeb_275p1_g

Regarding the fabled fable about Peter and make-up: you need travel no further through time - or the video - to discover blatant proof to the contrary at 4.35mins.

Still love the guy's work, though, and that's all, pour moi, that really counts!

Rob

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
    • Some of my photos
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 11:18:53 AM »

Ha, caught red-handed :)
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2900
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 04:45:01 PM »

Regarding the fabled fable about Peter and make-up: you need travel no further through time - or the video - to discover blatant proof to the contrary at 4.35mins.

In Oliver Stone’s “bio”-pic of The Doors he recreates their 1967 appearance on the Ed Sullivan show. Sullivan wanted them to change the “Girl, we couldn’t get much higher” lyric in Light My Fire to something less provocative. Of course they didn’t…and never appeared on the show again. In the film Val Kilmer, as Jim Morrison, makes a big thing out of higher, singing it with emphasis and almost lunging at the camera as he does so.

Problem is the actual performance was videotaped and by 1991, when the film came out, had long been in rotation on MTv and available on VHS. The real Morrison sings the song straight (not to mention superbly), no emphasis or gesturing. Ooops.

-Dave-
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 03:33:28 PM »

In Oliver Stone’s “bio”-pic of The Doors he recreates their 1967 appearance on the Ed Sullivan show. Sullivan wanted them to change the “Girl, we couldn’t get much higher” lyric in Light My Fire to something less provocative. Of course they didn’t…and never appeared on the show again. In the film Val Kilmer, as Jim Morrison, makes a big thing out of higher, singing it with emphasis and almost lunging at the camera as he does so.

Problem is the actual performance was videotaped and by 1991, when the film came out, had long been in rotation on MTv and available on VHS. The real Morrison sings the song straight (not to mention superbly), no emphasis or gesturing. Ooops.

-Dave-


Not sure why, but your post made me think back to this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hutchence

Maybe the why has to do with Helena Christensen, whom Peter Lindbergh more or less discovered, and apparently made an exclusive deal with at the start of her rise to superstardom.

Funny; these people were in a plane way over my head, but as they trod in the same direction, they became part of my consciousness and permanently ingrained there. It should be sad, but is strangely comforting instead. Hell, I even buy the book!

;-)

Rob

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2900
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2017, 04:20:00 PM »


Not sure why, but your post made me think back to this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hutchence

Maybe the why has to do with Helena Christensen, whom Peter Lindbergh more or less discovered, and apparently made an exclusive deal with at the start of her rise to superstardom.

My impression of Hutchence was that he was consciously channeling Morrison in both look and mannerisms. I’m guessing your impression was along the same line. Though I don’t think Jimbo, despite sleeping with Niko Nico, ever dated a supermodel.

I read about Hutchence’s suicide, in a fancy Sydney hotel, while staying in a fancy Singapore hotel. It was frontpage news even in The Straits Times. It took me aback too ‘cuz he was my age and I was then feeling very much in my “late prime.”

[Edit: gads, I misspelled Nico. In my defense I do know a fellow named Niko (Nicholas).  :) ]

-Dave-
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 04:37:19 PM by Telecaster »
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 05:19:00 PM »

My impression of Hutchence was that he was consciously channeling Morrison in both look and mannerisms. I’m guessing your impression was along the same line. Though I don’t think Jimbo, despite sleeping with Niko, ever dated a supermodel.

I read about Hutchence’s suicide, in a fancy Sydney hotel, while staying in a fancy Singapore hotel. It was frontpage news even in The Straits Times. It took me aback too ‘cuz he was my age and I was then feeling very much in my “late prime.”

-Dave-

Were you staying at Raffles? We were not, but we went for the obligatory Sling!

Straits Times Press (1975) Limited.

I have his card before me, and its owner, a certain Mr Brian Miller, Assistant to Editor, was very helpful in facilitating access to a keelong (?) - one of those fishing platfoms at sea - where we shot some pics for part of the Tennent's Lager Centenary Cal during 1984.

I have to admit to an act of knowingly committing plagiarism: we got some small, colourful fish from the catch, and tied them to a string which the girl held over her shoulder in a blatant rip off of Sam Haskins' better and famous shot. Kismet: the set, despite being one of the better ones from Singapore, never made the cut. Worse, the client didn't return them to me. I hadn't realised that even little fish on a string get heavy and painful, but the girl did tell me quite a lot... Funny: Brian explained to the fishermen - Moslems - that we were going to do topless, and did they object - they shrugged and couldn't have cared less. How things change.

I never would have had these memories if I'd played safe and finished my engineering apprenticeship. On the other hand, I might have found myself owning a Red Dot and a better pension scheme! Hey - who ever knows where the forks take you; it wouldn't be much fun if they were signposted, I guess. And on top of that, some things one does just don't come down to logical decision-making. I convince myself every day that I did the right thing; there's therapy in that.

;-)

Rob

opgr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 06:07:10 PM »

  it wouldn't be much fun if they were signposted, I guess. And on top of that, some things one does just don't come down to logical decision-making. I convince myself every day that I did the right thing; there's therapy in that.

;-)

Rob

Yes, one of the unfortunate side effects of life that you only realise this when it's late, maybe even too late. I have to fight the urge for reasoned decisions every g.....mned time. That's why i like our entirely different approach to photography: you always convincing us it's in the gut, and me taking a reasoned approach. In life i say: do the exact opposite.
Logged
Regards,
Oscar

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
    • Some of my photos
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 03:32:57 AM »

My impression of Hutchence was that he was consciously channeling Morrison in both look and mannerisms. I’m guessing your impression was along the same line. Though I don’t think Jimbo, despite sleeping with Niko, ever dated a supermodel.

I grew up with Hutchence and INXS in Sydney: they played at the Uni of Sydney Student Union, and I saw them in one of the huge barn-like pubs out in the western suburbs. Not super-model territory at all, my most vivid memory of that performance was a bouncer beating up someone just in front of me.

He wanted to be an artist, I guess, rather than just leaning back and counting the currency. It's a dangerous route, but everyone has their little story about the meaning of life and some of them have nasty side effects.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2017, 04:42:52 AM »

I grew up with Hutchence and INXS in Sydney: they played at the Uni of Sydney Student Union, and I saw them in one of the huge barn-like pubs out in the western suburbs. Not super-model territory at all, my most vivid memory of that performance was a bouncer beating up someone just in front of me.

He wanted to be an artist, I guess, rather than just leaning back and counting the currency. It's a dangerous route, but everyone has their little story about the meaning of life and some of them have nasty side effects.

Unlike Chuck Berry, whose experiences led him to getting paid in suitcases full of cash!

I remember a clip - buggered if I can remember its origin - where he and Little Richard, Bo Diddley and some other people were talking about the rip-off culture of the 50s where © usually went to anybody but the artist, and Richard signed for a tiny fraction of one cent per record sold. Berry was more than scathing in the conversation... It seems ridiculous that such contracts are allowed to stand in courts. To me, it appears more than obvious that anyone not well enough informed in law should not be held by deals where he has no idea what's being done to him. Of course, this brings me dangerously close to my notions about being allowed to vote, so I had better back off at this point!

;-)

Rob
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 09:40:11 AM by Rob C »
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2900
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2017, 05:30:17 PM »

Were you staying at Raffles? We were not, but we went for the obligatory Sling!

Not on this trip, though on a later one I did stay a night at the Raffles. My co-worker and pal Monica & I did the Sling thing in ‘97. I have photos of the occasion on color neg film somewhere, and Hi-8 video too.  :)  Prior to drinks we’d seen a da Vinci exhibit at the Singapore Art Museum. Nearly everything there was a copy, but the Mona Lisa in particular was an excellent one. I think it dated to the 19th century.

Quote
I have to admit to an act of knowingly committing plagiarism: we got some small, colourful fish from the catch, and tied them to a string which the girl held over her shoulder in a blatant rip off of Sam Haskins' better and famous shot. Kismet: the set, despite being one of the better ones from Singapore, never made the cut. Worse, the client didn't return them to me. I hadn't realised that even little fish on a string get heavy and painful, but the girl did tell me quite a lot... Funny: Brian explained to the fishermen - Moslems - that we were going to do topless, and did they object - they shrugged and couldn't have cared less. How things change.

During my Middle East travels (1983–85, and again in late ‘87–early ‘88) I met far more crazee Christians than the Islamic variety. Lotsa The world is ending next week! stuff in the air. People quitting their jobs and leaving their families behind to be where the “action” was. But no religion is just one thing and Islam, while not as sectaraian as Christianity, is pretty diverse.

-Dave-
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2900
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2017, 05:41:54 PM »

I remember a clip - buggered if I can remember its origin - where he and Little Richard, Bo Diddley and some other people were talking about the rip-off culture of the 50s where © usually went to anybody but the artist, and Richard signed for a tiny fraction of one cent per record sold. Berry was more than scathing in the conversation... It seems ridiculous that such contracts are allowed to stand in courts. To me, it appears more than obvious that anyone not well enough informed in law should not be held by deals where he has no idea what's being done to him. Of course, this brings me dangerously close to my notions about being allowed to vote, so I had better back off at this point!

This is (amazingly IMO) still an issue in the music industry. Naïve people signing ripoff contracts. Though it’s decreasing due to reduced sales and more musicians going the DIY route. Nowadays there’s just no excuse for it. Own your songs and your master recordings! Or get taken. Your choice.

-Dave-
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18033
Re: More on Sieff
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 06:14:37 AM »

Not on this trip, though on a later one I did stay a night at the Raffles. My co-worker and pal Monica & I did the Sling thing in ‘97. I have photos of the occasion on color neg film somewhere, and Hi-8 video too.  :)  Prior to drinks we’d seen a da Vinci exhibit at the Singapore Art Museum. Nearly everything there was a copy, but the Mona Lisa in particular was an excellent one. I think it dated to the 19th century.

During my Middle East travels (1983–85, and again in late ‘87–early ‘88) I met far more crazee Christians than the Islamic variety. Lotsa The world is ending next week! stuff in the air. People quitting their jobs and leaving their families behind to be where the “action” was. But no religion is just one thing and Islam, while not as sectaraian as Christianity, is pretty diverse.

-Dave-

The thing I noticed about Raffles, apart from the crazy drinks pricing - but hey, when you're pouring out a myth - was that it had all the appearance of a large, Indian railway station inside.

I'm led to believe that it was later closed and entirely refurbished...

Another thing that appealed to me very much about Singapore was the ban on gum - clean pavements! - and the fact that tipping was actively discouraged by notices on the café and bar tables. I have never felt comfortable with tips, either giving too little or too much - whatever either is. I feel it is demeaning of the staff, who should all be paid according to the value of their work, not made to feel like a sort of chartity-dependent soul. Your meal is going to cost you a certain amount anyway, either in two parts or as a single charge - so why not have the tip included as part of the total price and not left as a little thorn under the tab?

Rob
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up