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Author Topic: Panasonic GX8  (Read 1938 times)

opgr

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Panasonic GX8
« on: October 10, 2017, 12:42:23 PM »

Anyone own a Panasonic GX8?

It appears this camera has a rather brilliant sensor, but the in-camera jpg seems to suffer from incorrect colorimetry. Specifically red and green seem to be shifted toward blue. Maybe blue itself as well, so my question is this:

Did you ever notice this?
Is there an option to shift the jpg colors?
If so, how does the jpg processing respond?
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Oscar

Telecaster

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 02:57:34 PM »

Iíve got one. Itís my favorite non-rangefinder camera (and it handles kinda like an RF too). The default JPEG flavor is indeed weird, but the camera allows a lot of tweaking. You can dial in different color profiles, and if you shoot RAW or RAW+JPEG you can do in-camera RAW processing, applying a profile (amongst other adjustments) to RAWs on your SD card. The camera then creates a JPEG using your profile and other settings. I process the RAW files on my iPad much of the time, though.

-Dave-
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scooby70

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 05:13:14 AM »

I'd worry about the shutter shock issue. I had the affected G7 and GX7 and it's an issue with some lenses and knowing which lenses are affected is difficult, I'd never have thought that my Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 would be affected but it was whilst my other film era primes of similar bulk and weight seemed fine. Switching to the electronic shutter cures the shutter shock but of course may cause other issues.

The GX80 has the newer shutter mechanism which seems to cure the problem but it's smaller, you lose some of the GX8's controls and the fully articulating screen and the GX80's EVF is poor by todays standards.

If drawn to the GX8 to the point that a GX80 simply wont do I'd wait and see if a GX9 with the new shutter comes along just to save the hassle of shutter shock and wondering what lenses and settings are ok.
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opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 06:57:02 AM »

Thanks. Yes, I'm aware of the shutterissue, although I don't believe it would affect my photography. I'm about to blow my money on a Fuji, but thought it prudent to at least consider some alternatives. The Panasonic + Oly lenses seem to provide excellent rendering, except for in-camera color which I find important these days. I no longer feel an urge to go down the RAW route. It's the back-to-basics approach that now attracts me which naturally fits with the Fuji. The Panny in that respect seems to have too many buttons where my thumb should be.

On the plus side, the EVF + magnification is attractive, it's slightly cheaper, and there is obviously a plethora of lenses to choose from.

Choosing a camera now is also buying into a new lens line for the foreseeable future.
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Oscar

scooby70

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 07:28:40 AM »

Thanks. Yes, I'm aware of the shutterissue, although I don't believe it would affect my photography. I'm about to blow my money on a Fuji, but thought it prudent to at least consider some alternatives. The Panasonic + Oly lenses seem to provide excellent rendering, except for in-camera color which I find important these days. I no longer feel an urge to go down the RAW route. It's the back-to-basics approach that now attracts me which naturally fits with the Fuji. The Panny in that respect seems to have too many buttons where my thumb should be.

On the plus side, the EVF + magnification is attractive, it's slightly cheaper, and there is obviously a plethora of lenses to choose from.

Choosing a camera now is also buying into a new lens line for the foreseeable future.

With an affected body and lens combination avoiding the problem shutter speed range was just too much of an issue for me. It's something that constantly needed attention when using affected gear and when thinking about using a new lens.
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opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 08:09:36 AM »

With an affected body and lens combination avoiding the problem shutter speed range was just too much of an issue for me. It's something that constantly needed attention when using affected gear and when thinking about using a new lens.

Yes, I can imagine how that is a dealbreaker. I could probably go entirely electronic shutter, but if you need to do flash, or action etc, it likely is a no go. The sensor is relatively noisy as well, so high-iso could also become an issue.
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Oscar

Telecaster

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 03:36:36 PM »

IMO the shutter shock ďissueĒ is almost entirely hype-over-substance. The only time Iíve ever seen it has been when using my 100Ė400mm zoom at 400mm and ~1/125th sec. on a tripod, and then only because I mistakenly switched out of electronic shutter mode. I also found the problem disappeared when I mounted the rig to the tripod via the camera rather than the lens. Anyway the E-shutter is superior in all situations except when very fast motion or pulsing light sources (like fluorescent & tungsten) are involved. Itíd be nice if there were no issue at all, of course, but itís trivially easy to work around.

All that said, Fuji makes great stuff these days and if I werenít so fond of the 100Ė400 and a handful of other m43 lenses Iíd give an X camera another spin. (I owned an X-E1 for awhile some years ago.)

Edit: Iíve attached an example GX8 pic taken at ISO 3200. I like the noise/texture character of the camera at this ISO, particularly as processed via Affinity Photo on my iPad, and often use it deliberately. (Before anyone wonders, the striations in the background leaves arenít banding. Itís a hosta plant.  :) )

-Dave-
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 04:08:07 PM by Telecaster »
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TommyWeir

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 03:44:55 PM »

FWIW on my LX100 I found the JPEGs improved greatly when I zero-ed out the Sharpening and Noise Reduction in the Standard Picture mode.

opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 05:09:27 PM »

Right, the LX100 suffers the same hueshift, some Sony and Canon as well. If there is a colorshift parameter like the sharpening and saturation parameters, it may be all that is needed.

And, yes, the sensor may be noisy, but it is indeed a pleasing type of noise. Not prone to pattern or banding from what little i've seen.
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Oscar

scooby70

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 05:03:20 AM »

IMO the shutter shock ďissueĒ is almost entirely hype-over-substance. The only time Iíve ever seen it has been when using my 100Ė400mm zoom at 400mm and ~1/125th sec. on a tripod, and then only because I mistakenly switched out of electronic shutter mode. I also found the problem disappeared when I mounted the rig to the tripod via the camera rather than the lens. Anyway the E-shutter is superior in all situations except when very fast motion or pulsing light sources (like fluorescent & tungsten) are involved. Itíd be nice if there were no issue at all, of course, but itís trivially easy to work around.


The issue certainly is not hype over substance.

If you have an affected camera and lens combination and want to use it within the affected shutter speed range (in the region of 1/100-1/300, smack where a lot of my shots would be taken) or in circumstances in which using the electronic shutter would cause other problems (in my case banding under artificial light) it's a killer and there's no way around it unless you change the body or the lens.

If you've only hit this issue once I can see how you'd think it isn't an issue but spare a thought for those who see it as being a little more serious.

I wouldn't recommend affected bodies to anyone as I see it as a minefield but if people want to buy cameras like the GX8 knowing that the issue exists and willing to deal with it at least they're doing so informed and not blind as I was when I stumbled into this.



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stever

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 10:17:03 AM »

i used the gx7 fairly extensively after thoroughly testing resolution.  shutter shock substantially degraded resolution between about 1/100 and 1/300 sec causing me to use silent mode (giving up dynamic range instead) in this shutter speed range as an annoying work-around.

the GX85 has no such problem.

i look forward to the rumored GX9 (or whatever)

i find it amazing how long the mirrorless manufactures (and many reviewers) failed to address this problem.
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Telecaster

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:26 PM »

The issue certainly is not hype over substance.

The GX8 works fine for me, and I donít find its flaws at all deal-breaking. If the camera doesnít work for you, it doesnít. I have no desire to argue against that.

-Dave-
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David S

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 11:11:06 AM »

I liked my GX8 but must confess to having gone over to Fuji and I am delighted with the switch, the picture quality and the lens quality. Bit more weight to carry but, for me, well worth it.
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opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 11:47:27 AM »

Right, for me it would be the X-E3 which is lighter although considering my sizeable hands it wouldn't make much difference. I've held the Fuji and it felt well-balanced with the 18-55, and my thumb fitted very well indeed, no buttons to be touched inadvertently!

I like to carry my camera with a handstrap but that worked fine even with my relatively heavy Canon dslr and 24-70 i used to own.

I have yet to try the fuji in actual use, so can't comment on that yet.

However, considering my current photography interest and sales, i might be better served by the Olympus EM 5 ii and its in-camera stability and high-res mode. It is one of the few other cams that produces nice ooc color, has good magnification VF, and Olympus obviously has photography at heart.

The thing is: the 45 zuiko seems to produce a beautiful image paired with these M43 sensors, and appears to be sharper than what Fuji produces with Xtrans and the 56. I believe that even the X-A3 with the bayer sensor produces sharper results, but it doesn't compete at higher iso and has no VF.

I really liked the Fuji when i first saw it, the minimal design appeals, the left side VF is helpful. But it appears that Fuji is now also asking a premium for the camera incl the kit lens for no other reason that it can. (T20 and E3 body only is the same price, but with the lens it's 100e difference).

And of course, none of the RAW converters can process that Xtrans correctly, which isn't my initial concern but is something to keep in mind.
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Oscar

TommyWeir

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 09:46:24 AM »

I would agree that Olympus have photography at their heart, the EM series are wonderful to use.

But I think there's no comparison between the Xtrans and the 43 bayer, the Fuji 56mm produces by far the better image.  Perhaps with your comment on the Raw processor you might have encountered an issue.  I use Iridient Developer for this and Capture One for my JPEGs, happy with this approach.

JV

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 02:59:41 PM »

I use Iridient Developer for this and Capture One for my JPEGs, happy with this approach.

Totally off topic, but does anybody know what is up with Iridient Developer?  Version 3.1.4 came out in March... and no updates since then...
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opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2017, 05:19:35 AM »

I would agree that Olympus have photography at their heart, the EM series are wonderful to use.

But I think there's no comparison between the Xtrans and the 43 bayer, the Fuji 56mm produces by far the better image.  Perhaps with your comment on the Raw processor you might have encountered an issue.  I use Iridient Developer for this and Capture One for my JPEGs, happy with this approach.

Yes, the Xtrans sensor definitely outperforms the 43 sensors. Both in tonal- and colordepth and certainly at high-iso.
 
I have misjudged the lens because apparently I was using a badly focused RAW file as reference. (see attached).

I like Iridient as well for two reasons: no need for a separate database with shady import stategies, and the color-aliasing slider.
I don't like Iridient because of the multitude of options and corresponding processing "versions". But this is a general gripe I have with all converters. Too many sliders that will primarily get your mind deeply into technical pixelpeeping as opposed to creative imagemaking.

Even so I have prepared a couple of screenshots to show the problems I have seen with the converters. Let me create an additional post.
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Oscar

opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 05:23:16 AM »

Comparison 1: Pixelpeeping example
The black lines show a lot of false pixels.
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Oscar

opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 05:30:33 AM »

Comparison 2: Colorrendition (definitely not pixelpeeping, this would change the mood of an image).
Clearly, shaded orange shouldn't turn into burning red.

Obviously, this is partly a combination of default saturation and contrast, but what combination?
Adobe probably shows the best rendition, especially because adjusting the saturation doesn't shift colors.
This is an important problem area because the impact extends to fleshtones.

The detail of a car image is from the DPReview Panasonic GX8 galerie and shows how relevant this can be in a normal image reproduction.
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Oscar

opgr

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Re: Panasonic GX8
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 05:41:23 AM »

PS. note that this has nothing at all to do with RAW converter bashing of any specific manufacturer.

I would choose Iridient for its standalone use,
I would choose C1pro for its speed and demosaicing,
I would choose Adobe for its accurate colorreproduction.
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Oscar
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