Lightroom vs photoshop printing

[Thenolands]

Can someone enlighten me as to the proper way to export images from Lightroom into photoshop to get the image to print indentically as it does in Lightroom? My images are printing very well out of lightroom but I am needing to use the canvas print module to select gallery wrap edge treatments using photoshop and my images are not coming out the same. Currently I am exporting as TIFF with no compression in ProPhoto color space and using the same relative colorimetric intent when printing as I did in Lightroom.

[dchew]

Can you explain what you see that is different? Color, sharpness, tone, ?

Dave

[Thenolands]

Difference in color mainly. I attached pics for reference (they aren't very good but you can tell the differences between the two - the lightroom print matches much better in person). The first image was printed in lightroom and the second in photoshop. See how the pinks in the clouds turn orange in the photoshop printed image?

I am also unsure regarding the use of the prograf print plugin vs not using it. When I try to use it, I get a warning regarding using my v4 icc profile with OS CMM. I downloaded Adobe CMM but I don't think it is compatible with the prograf print module because it still says it isn't installed (after restarting Photoshop). Obviously, when printing from Lightroom I do not get any warning.

[digitaldog]

Can someone enlighten me as to the proper way to export images from Lightroom into photoshop to get the image to print indentically as it does in Lightroom?

All settings being equal, the output will be equal. There should be NO color differences so we need to know exactly what you're doing. With proper settings, there will be no difference.

[Thenolands]

Besides what I have already mentioned what other steps is necessary for you to know? Where else could settings be changed to produce these differences

[digitaldog]

Besides what I have already mentioned what other steps is necessary for you to know? Where else could settings be changed to produce these differences

Every dialog setting from each for one, the color space exported another. And the test of output of the color reference image too:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

[Doug Gray]

Can someone enlighten me as to the proper way to export images from Lightroom into photoshop to get the image to print indentically as it does in Lightroom? My images are printing very well out of lightroom but I am needing to use the canvas print module to select gallery wrap edge treatments using photoshop and my images are not coming out the same. Currently I am exporting as TIFF with no compression in ProPhoto color space and using the same relative colorimetric intent when printing as I did in Lightroom.

First, Zip or LZW Tiff compression is lossless and produce identical print bits.

Second, Photoshop and Lightroom are somewhat different internally. Photoshop uses, and exports to the printer driver RGB values in the image's working colorspace. Lightroom, when letting the printer manage color, always converts images to an internal representation, an altered form of ProPhoto with a gamma set at 1.  This is also the space the RGB values are sent to the printer using "Printer Manages Color". It has the job of converting it to device space RGB values. Since printer drivers differ between models, OEMs, and maybe even versions, it's really not a good idea to depend on the printer driver doing any color management.

I get completely consistent (Better than .5 dE) results using Lightroom and Photoshop with my printers and custom profiles when letting the application manage color. And on one printer using Photoshop I get the same consistent color management letting the printer manage color and setting ICM driver settings to the desired paper/profile and input colorspace.  But only in Photoshop. Lightroom mangles the color using identical settings in the driver. This is because that driver is seeing the Lightroom RGB values, which are in an altered form of ProPhoto RGB but is interpreting it as if in the standard, Gamma=1.8, ProPhoto colorspace.

So, the only configuration where I see identical, consistent results printing from Lightroom or Photoshop is letting those applications manage color. I always set the printer driver's color management "Off."

[JeanMichel]

When printing on canvas with mirror edges, I soft-proof the image in Lightroom, send it to PS for sizing and adding edges, save back to LR, and print from LR. I can't remember the last time the I printed directly from PS, I much prefer printing from LR even if for some reason I need to do some working PS on an image.

[Doug Gray]

When printing on canvas with mirror edges, I soft-proof the image in Lightroom, send it to PS for sizing and adding edges, save back to LR, and print from LR. I can't remember the last time the I printed directly from PS, I much prefer printing from LR even if for some reason I need to do some working PS on an image.

There are a few cases where you can't print from Lightroom but can from Photoshop. They are uncommon. The most significant is that you can't print in Lightroom without black point compensation using Relative intent. When an image doesn't have significant shadows darker than the print's black point the print will have shadows lightened. It's a particularly large effect with matte paper.

The other is saturation or absolute intents. These are only available in Photoshop. They are specialty intents not normally used by photographers but common in the graphic arts.

[Thenolands]

When printing on canvas with mirror edges, I soft-proof the image in Lightroom, send it to PS for sizing and adding edges, save back to LR, and print from LR. I can't remember the last time the I printed directly from PS, I much prefer printing from LR even if for some reason I need to do some working PS on an image.

Do you "send to PS" by using "edit in photoshop"?
How do you save the image with the edge detail?
What setting are you using when sending back to Lightroom?

[JeanMichel]

Do you "send to PS" by using "edit in photoshop"?
How do you save the image with the edge detail?
What setting are you using when sending back to Lightroom?

I adjust my raw image in LR
Create a soft-proof copy
Send that to PS using  cmd E (edit in PS)
Make whatever changes you want in PS
Save - that will automatically create a tif file and that file will show up in LR
If you Save As, the new file will not show up in LR until you import it
Print

OR,
Adjust the image in LR
Send to PS, make changes
Save
Soft-proof the tif tile in LR

Print: of course, you need to make sure to use the correct measurements in the LR Print module.
Print

[Thenolands]

Thank you so much for all the replies. What an amazing community here!

Is there a particular place in PS I can go that manages how imports and exports are handled, rendering intents, etc. (where my issue could be hiding)? Is it possible to say "if these options in these particular menus are selected you should have identical prints?Or are there too many places and selections to tell me about in a forum post?

Also, do you think the issue could be the v4 icc I am using and the whole OS CMM vs Adobe CMM issue with Canon print module ( I get a warning that I am not using Adobe CMM but I don't think I am able to)? I don't really have the ability to make a v2 profile (just had this profile made for me) but if this is the issue I can at least stop looking through the myriad of other things it could be.

[Doug Gray]

Thank you so much for all the replies. What an amazing community here!

Is there a particular place in PS I can go that manages how imports and exports are handled, rendering intents, etc. (where my issue could be hiding)? Is it possible to say "if these options in these particular menus are selected you should have identical prints?Or are there too many places and selections to tell me about in a forum post?

Also, do you think the issue could be the v4 icc I am using and the whole OS CMM vs Adobe CMM issue with Canon print module ( I get a warning that I am not using Adobe CMM but I don't think I am able to)? I don't really have the ability to make a v2 profile (just had this profile made for me) but if this is the issue I can at least stop looking through the myriad of other things it could be.

I can't help about most of this. I get identical results with Photoshop and Lightroom. At least when using the limited intent selection in Lightroom and when letting the apps manage color.

Also, I have made both V2 and V4 profiles with I1Profiler and the only difference between them is how Perceptual Intent is handled. Relative Intent conversions are identical. But in Perc. Int., L* for black is raised from 0 to 3. Photoshop handles this by internally rescaling to 0 so the prints come out the same.  Don't know how Lightroom works with it.

One thing you might try is bypassing the plugin and just going direct to the printer driver. While its interface is not as simple as the plugin which is supposed to handle setting up the driver, if you haven't tried that yet it could be worth a shot. Also, Lightroom and Photoshop should work with V4's if you bypass the plugin. No error messages.

[Wayne Fox]

screen shots of your printing dialog boxes might help.

Do you have PS color management defaults to use ProPhoto 16bit?

[dchew]

Just when I was going to ask about PS defaults Wayne posted. It is a long shot but if you have the color management set to ignore and "assign profile", it could do what you are seeing depending on what profile it is set to assign.

Would be very strange for it to be set that way though.

Dave

[Thenolands]

I adjust my raw image in LR
Create a soft-proof copy
Send that to PS using  cmd E (edit in PS)
Make whatever changes you want in PS
Save - that will automatically create a tif file and that file will show up in LR
If you Save As, the new file will not show up in LR until you import it
Print

OR,
Adjust the image in LR
Send to PS, make changes
Save
Soft-proof the tif tile in LR

Print: of course, you need to make sure to use the correct measurements in the LR Print module.
Print

Thank you for this brief walkthrough. I learn something new everyday. I had no idea that saving a PS file would cause it to appear in Lr as a new master file. Cool!

And I assume you get identical printing using this method? Perhaps something about exporting in TIFF format, creating a new file with all its various selections and placing the TIFF on the newly created "canvas" was  was throwing something off. I am fairly sure i have not changed any presets or anything so hopefully using the "edit in photoshop" option and "saving" in photoshop will eliminate a lot of the variables i had doing it the inefficient way

[JeanMichel]

Thank you for this brief walkthrough. I learn something new everyday. I had no idea that saving a PS file would cause it to appear in Lr as a new master file. Cool!

And I assume you get identical printing using this method? Perhaps something about exporting in TIFF format, creating a new file with all its various selections and placing the TIFF on the newly created "canvas" was  was throwing something off. I am fairly sure i have not changed any presets or anything so hopefully using the "edit in photoshop" option and "saving" in photoshop will eliminate a lot of the variables i had doing it the inefficient way

Hi,
I assume that this would be the case; but I never tried to do a comparison of prints from PS or LR, don't feel a need for that. One thing you might want to check is if the colour space you use in LR and in PS are the same, they must be.
It would be well worth your time to view the Camera to Print video, and the Lightroom videos available in this site. The Camera to Print was done some time ago but is still an excellent primer to the digital workflow. It is one of the benefits of subscribing to this site.

Jean-Michel

[Wayne Fox]

Thank you for this brief walkthrough. I learn something new everyday. I had no idea that saving a PS file would cause it to appear in Lr as a new master file. Cool!

And I assume you get identical printing using this method? Perhaps something about exporting in TIFF format, creating a new file with all its various selections and placing the TIFF on the newly created "canvas" was  was throwing something off. I am fairly sure i have not changed any presets or anything so hopefully using the "edit in photoshop" option and "saving" in photoshop will eliminate a lot of the variables i had doing it the inefficient way

I don't believe this will have an effect on your issue.  All this does is automate the process so you don't need to import the file in LR.  Opening the file, saving as, then importing in lightroom results in identical tiff files produced by photoshop.

If the tiff file prints differently from LR than the original and you haven't done anything in PS which might modify the color, the only thing I can think of is it is getting converted to sRGB file when it goes to PS and  you aren't aware because you have your warn when color management mismatches settings off.  the default for PS is to not warn, and to use sRGB as a working space. This is from the Color Settings menu choice in the Edit dialog.

If it prints differently from PS, then there could be several factors involved (including the same thing), but also color management settings might not be identical between the two programs.

[Thenolands]

I don't believe this will have an effect on your issue.  All this does is automate the process so you don't need to import the file in LR.  Opening the file, saving as, then importing in lightroom results in identical tiff files produced by photoshop.

If the tiff file prints differently from LR than the original and you haven't done anything in PS which might modify the color, the only thing I can think of is it is getting converted to sRGB file when it goes to PS and  you aren't aware because you have your warn when color management mismatches settings off.  the default for PS is to not warn, and to use sRGB as a working space. This is from the Color Settings menu choice in the Edit dialog.

If it prints differently from PS, then there could be several factors involved (including the same thing), but also color management settings might not be identical between the two programs.

Where are these color management settings located in PS so that I can check. From what I have gathered I would want it is ProPhoto color space, as that is what Lr uses, correct? What else should I ensure settings-wise?

[JeanMichel]

Where are these color management settings located in PS so that I can check. From what I have gathered I would want it is ProPhoto color space, as that is what Lr uses, correct? What else should I ensure settings-wise?

Check Preferences in LR
Check Edit Color Settings in PS