Alternatives to Canson Baryta

[Paul2660]

I am looking for suggestions for a replacement to Canson Baryta, on a Epson 9900. 

I have used Canson Baryta for years, but recently, the paper has really started to show a bad problem with flaking.  Not to mention the curl.  The curl has always been a problem, basically making the last 1/3 to 1/4 of roll really no usable for anything for me besides a small print as when that much curl is involved scratching is next to impossible to avoid.

The last 3 rolls, 24 and 36 inch I received have really flaked off to a degree I would state the paper is just not stable.  You have to brush off the surface, or use air (I don't use air) but the use of a fine fiber anti static horse hair brush to remove dust on a print's face should not be pulling off the actual print i.e. flakes.  This is after a heavy coating of Print shield. 

I am not interested in anything RC based due to the issue of out gassing.  I no longer have access to a heat press, thus large prints, will out gas over time if on RC. 

Papers I am considering:

Epson Exhibition Fiber (rolls only come in 24 and 44).  The reason I have stuck with Canson is the fact they have 36" rolls which cover the vast majority of my prints, but I have had good luck on the 24 x 30 and 13 x 19 sheets
Moab Juniper Baryta (have not tried this at all)
Canson Platine, I used to use it quite a bit, but it also had issues with flaking last time I tried it 2 years ago and the Epson Exhibition Fiber looks very similar to it IMO for less.

Anything other ideas are greatly appreciated.

Paul Caldwell

[Mark D Segal]

You may wish to peruse the large number of papers I've reviewed on this website to see whether the performance descriptions for some of them may give you a reasonable lead-in for what to expect. In the final analysis, I'd be the first to admit that all this information isn't a substitute for feeling and using the paper oneself. The closest comparators to the Canson papers you've been using are the Epson Legacy papers, which I have reviewed. You may wish to give the Epson Legacy Platine a whirl and see how it works for you. Hahnemuhle's offerings could also be of interest. I reviewed Moab Juniper quite some time ago on this site. Nice paper.

[Mark D Segal]

I should add, I've been using a fair bit of Hahn Photo Rag Baryta lately and find it a lovely paper to work with and for the results.

[nirpat89]

I am looking for suggestions for a replacement to Canson Baryta, on a Epson 9900. 

I thought Canson Baryta (Photographique) was a dead-ringer for Ilford Fiber Silk Baryta or vice versa.  I have both and I can barely tell them apart.

[Mark D Segal]

I thought Canson Baryta (Photographique) was a dead-ringer for Ilford Fiber Silk Baryta or vice versa.  I have both and I can barely tell them apart.

Yes, they are very similar papers, and both alpha-cellulose substrate; I was under the impression Paul is looking for a combination of Baryta PK coating on a cotton rag substrate.

[schertz]

Perhaps also look at Ilford's Gold Fibre Gloss. The paper is cotton, OBA-free and has a fine texture similar to a lustre surface. I've been trying this paper out recently, as an alternative to Canson's Platine and I like it. There seems to be less flaking (although I probably haven't been through enough of it to say anything definitive) and the edges cut cleaner in my Rototrim. As a caveat, I haven't seen much in the way of reviews, and I'm just using Ilford's generic profile for printing.
The price is pretty good right now as well.
Mike

[Rand47]

My unscienfitific but “lots of use” opinion is that Canson Baryta Photographique, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, and Epson Legacy Baryta are all VERY similar papers in surface texture, color gamut, feel, etc.  Side by side comparison of prints made on these papers are very difficult to tell from one another.

I suggest you do a thorough cleaning of the innards of your printer.  Debris from using some papers (e.g. Museo Silver Rag) can shed crap into the innards of your printer that end up being redeposited on paper fed in.

Rand

[Mark D Segal]

Perhaps also look at Ilford's Gold Fibre Gloss. The paper is cotton, OBA-free and has a fine texture similar to a lustre surface. I've been trying this paper out recently, as an alternative to Canson's Platine and I like it. There seems to be less flaking (although I probably haven't been through enough of it to say anything definitive) and the edges cut cleaner in my Rototrim. As a caveat, I haven't seen much in the way of reviews, and I'm just using Ilford's generic profile for printing.
The price is pretty good right now as well.
Mike

I reviewed Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss here: Eight Papers

[Rand47]

Perhaps also look at Ilford's Gold Fibre Gloss.  . . .

A really nice paper.  I put it in the same general category as Canson Platine Fiber, Epson Legacy Platine  - except that it has a very slightly “shinier” satin finish.  Very similar cotton feel “in the hand,” weight, slightly “richer” (qualitatively very slightly more saturated) look to images printed on them than the extant baryta papers.

Rand

[Wayne Fox]

I would consider Epson Legacy Baryta over Exhibition Fiber.  I've used EEF for years, but the Baryta offers similar results with lower OBA.s  Epson Legacy Platine is also a very nice paper with no OBA's.

I've never compared them, but those that have state legacy baryta is pretty much identical to Canson baryta, many claiming it's the same paper rebranded.  Epson frequently runs a buy 2, get 1 free special so the paper can be had for a lower price if you are willing to stock up with the sale occurs.

[Paul2660]

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  Lots to try. 

On the mention of debris sitting on the surface, I had considered that and cleaned the printer as good as I was able.  I had a job for several 20 x 60 prints, and used a RC paper for them since I knew I would have them mounted with heat (which seems to get rid of most of the out gassing).  No flaking, problems at all, went back to the job I am working on with Canson Baryta and made a series of 22 x 32 prints all of which flaked during printing or later. 

Lover of the look of the paper, just not the quality. 

Question for Wayne, on the Epson Baryta, I have assumed these were just rebadged Canon products since Epson has no paper mills.  But as mentioned the Epson versions are less in price with the rebates.  Does the Epson Baryta have the same tight curl that the Canon has?  The curl of the Canson is very tight and makes things hard to work with also at least for me, as it's always trying to spring back and needs some form of de-curling after the printing.

Thanks again for the help form the community.

Paul Caldwell

[Ken Doo]

Paul,

Another nice paper to try is the newly released (late last year) Canson Baryta Prestige. I mention this one because of your comments about heavy curl. This is a heavy paper and yet it lays flat after printing. Curl does make prints more difficult to work with!  I remain concerned with your comments with regard to flaking. I'm hoping your roll of Canson is just a bad batch.

Ken

[Wayne Fox]

Question for Wayne, on the Epson Baryta, I have assumed these were just rebadged Canon products since Epson has no paper mills.  But as mentioned the Epson versions are less in price with the rebates.  Does the Epson Baryta have the same tight curl that the Canon has?  The curl of the Canson is very tight and makes things hard to work with also at least for me, as it's always trying to spring back and needs some form of de-curling after the printing.

I don't believe Canson has any mills either. So it isn't surprising if you spec out a paper to a mill and a coater the end results would be very similar to another paper they already make.  There are enough subtle differences in the profiles and data as shown by Mark in his reviews to indicate they aren't the exact same paper.  Strikingly similar, but not identical.

I have seen no flaking problem with the Legacy Baryta. 

Regarding curl, I've never used the Canson so I don't know if the curl is "tighter" than with the Epson.  i have used Exhibition Fiber and I don't see much difference.  There is certainly some curl and the paper is pretty rigid, but I've never had a problem mounting this paper with a cold laminator or a heat laminator and have never need to "de-curl" the paper to mount it.

[Mark D Segal]

Paul,

Another nice paper to try is the newly released (late last year) Canson Baryta Prestige. I mention this one because of your comments about heavy curl. This is a heavy paper and yet it lays flat after printing. Curl does make prints more difficult to work with!  I remain concerned with your comments with regard to flaking. I'm hoping your roll of Canson is just a bad batch.

Ken

Yes, and I've reviewed Baryta Prestige on this website, but not tested for heavy curl, as I used sheets.

[Mark D Segal]

I would consider Epson Legacy Baryta over Exhibition Fiber.  I've used EEF for years, but the Baryta offers similar results with lower OBA.s  Epson Legacy Platine is also a very nice paper with no OBA's.
....................... Epson frequently runs a buy 2, get 1 free special so the paper can be had for a lower price if you are willing to stock up with the sale occurs.

Agreed.

[Mark D Segal]

I don't believe Canson has any mills either. So it isn't surprising if you spec out a paper to a mill and a coater the end results would be very similar to another paper they already make.  There are enough subtle differences in the profiles and data as shown by Mark in his reviews to indicate they aren't the exact same paper.  Strikingly similar, but not identical.

I have seen no flaking problem with the Legacy Baryta. 

Canson actually doesn't exist any longer - as you may recall it was bought out by F.I.L.A. of Italy. Even before the buyout, they made some of their stuff and farmed-out others. Which was which was never revealed to me, but that's history anyhow. As for differences, one industry insider put it to me like this: "similar but different". Go figure what that means. If I read you correctly, and what I've heard, is that the brander develops the specs and guidance on the recipe, then deals with paper-makers, coaters and converters to actually manufacture it.

I've used quite a bit of Legacy Baryta (sheets) and never had any flaking issues either. And yes, when they offer these papers on the "three for the price of two plan", it's hard to beat, not to speak of those superb boxes which really protect the paper well.