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Author Topic: Has LuLa passed its prime?  (Read 3768 times)

David Mantripp

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2017, 10:17:30 AM »

I could argue that Lula peaked around 2003.  Then again, I suspect I did too...
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Rob C

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2017, 02:16:33 PM »

Thanks to Kevin and his crew for keeping LuLA going. I've been looking at this site since 2000.  Over the years I have realized that photography is more than just owning gear. Now we are flooded with zillions of images, yet the playing field is more accessible than it ever was.  Just about anyone can pick up a used Nikon D800 and have unlimited photographic potential.  Yet the problem is photography is also an art.  I personally take many of my photographs with a friend who still uses his Nikon D300 and who refuses to address color management.  Still his prints always look more creative than mine - he is more of the artist even thought I have better gear.  As time goes on, I'm more humbled by good photography.  I think the most exciting time for me was making the trasition to digital!  It will be hard to beat that for a number of years! 

I'm sorry to say that my cat passed away about 3 weeks ago.  I'm still devistated - she was my lightroom assistant.

Sorry about your cat; I've also been heartbroken at losing animals. When we lost our penultimate dog we thought the best solution was to get another one quite soon. We did that, and ended up with the best dog we've ever known. People scoff when you talk about animals as a family member, and unless they have had animals that communicate too, then it isn't surprising they think one a little dramatic or odd.

When that dog died we simply couldn't face replacing her, knowing we'd probably have to face losing another one all over again.

Rob

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2017, 10:59:58 AM »

I have read all of the contributions on this correctly termed 'awkward' thread and agree with the theme of many of them. For me there is no question but that Michael's influence and 'presence' is sorely missed and for me that lessens the site significantly but that is an inescapable and redeemable fact.
However it is, in my judgement, still one of the more worthwhile photography related sites and I visit it several times a week, regularly enjoy the Forum contributions and certainly do not begrudge the small charge to access any part of the content in which I may be interested at a particular time and from which I occasionally derive useful benefit.
Were LuLa not to continue and to thrive an already sad inevitability would be greatly compounded.  There is not such an abundance of worthwhile sites that we do not need to encourage and support this one albeit with its changed nature.
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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2017, 12:25:26 PM »

I have read all of the contributions on this correctly termed 'awkward' thread and agree with the theme of many of them. For me there is no question but that Michael's influence and 'presence' is sorely missed and for me that lessens the site significantly but that is an inescapable and redeemable fact.
However it is, in my judgement, still one of the more worthwhile photography related sites and I visit it several times a week, regularly enjoy the Forum contributions and certainly do not begrudge the small charge to access any part of the content in which I may be interested at a particular time and from which I occasionally derive useful benefit.
Were LuLa not to continue and to thrive an already sad inevitability would be greatly compounded.  There is not such an abundance of worthwhile sites that we do not need to encourage and support this one albeit with its changed nature.

+1+1

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2017, 01:12:53 PM »

Hi,

I sort of share that view. We all miss Michael Reichmann, but his old friends keep his memory alive.

Also, I find that many of the contributions are very good and I am happy that Kevin shares his experience.

Just to say, I wish more of the videos would be open. Stuff like the interviews with Ray Maxwell, Ctein, Charlie Cramer and Bill Atkinson.

Best regards
Erik

I have read all of the contributions on this correctly termed 'awkward' thread and agree with the theme of many of them. For me there is no question but that Michael's influence and 'presence' is sorely missed and for me that lessens the site significantly but that is an inescapable and redeemable fact.
However it is, in my judgement, still one of the more worthwhile photography related sites and I visit it several times a week, regularly enjoy the Forum contributions and certainly do not begrudge the small charge to access any part of the content in which I may be interested at a particular time and from which I occasionally derive useful benefit.
Were LuLa not to continue and to thrive an already sad inevitability would be greatly compounded.  There is not such an abundance of worthwhile sites that we do not need to encourage and support this one albeit with its changed nature.

Rob C

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2017, 02:06:19 PM »

Hi,

I sort of share that view. We all miss Michael Reichmann, but his old friends keep his memory alive.

Also, I find that many of the contributions are very good and I am happy that Kevin shares his experience.

Just to say, I wish more of the videos would be open. Stuff like the interviews with Ray Maxwell, Ctein, Charlie Cramer and Bill Atkinson.

Best regards
Erik

But Eric, would you expect LuLa to supply free bus passes? It's got to finance itself and also turn a profit.

Rob

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2017, 03:08:07 PM »

Hi Rob,

The fact that you cannot post links to interesting content on LuLa cannot be good for business. Perhaps they could find a solution so subscribers can post links to content.

For me, information that cannot be shared is essentially useless information. I would suggest that LuLa needs to find a balance between costs and uility. Could I share good links to contents at LuLa it may get some new customer to LuLa, but the need to subscribe would scare away 99% of the customers.

On the other hand, could I post a link to a great article for free the reader may feel that this is a great site worth exploring, even if it costs 1$/month.

Best regards
Erik


But Eric, would you expect LuLa to supply free bus passes? It's got to finance itself and also turn a profit.

Rob

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2017, 06:11:34 PM »

It might be nice to have free "teasers" of some of the videos available. That might help lure more subscribers ($1 per month is pretty cheap, IMHO.)
On the other hand, if Chris had to spend even more time creating the "teasers," he would have less time to get new videos out the door.
As it is I feel the the LuLa team all work very hard as it is.

Eric
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Rob C

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2017, 04:01:43 AM »

It might be nice to have free "teasers" of some of the videos available. That might help lure more subscribers ($1 per month is pretty cheap, IMHO.)
On the other hand, if Chris had to spend even more time creating the "teasers," he would have less time to get new videos out the door.
As it is I feel the the LuLa team all work very hard as it is.

Eric


Eric, I produce almost nothing, and I find that a difficult 24/24 proposition to maintain!

It's an age thing: when I was younger - say up until my mid-40s - I could do without a night's sleep, spending that night in the yellow/green glow of the darkroom earning my tiny crust. (No idea why the movies show darkrooms as under a red glow - that's only useful if you're working with line film; I never set foot in a professional darkroom where anyone used other than the standard yellowish/greenish filter over the box; I think it was called OB or similar - too long ago to remember the code accurately. But as I said, nobody printed under red - it would make you wildly inaccurate and give you more serious eye-strain than other habits are reputed to do. Kodak and Ilford never did suggest anyone should use red for papers, at the most suggesting they would be safe, but not helpful. Maybe the entertainment industry just needs dramas: next, disco-light darkroms with rotating globe. You heard it first here.)

I don't know how old the LuLa staff might be, but I get the visual impression that it needs to do things well and slowly, both these being relatives. I can fully empathise as well as sympathise.

;-)

Rob

GrahamBy

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2017, 05:50:37 AM »

(No idea why the movies show darkrooms as under a red glow

It's a fascinating bit of sociology. I presume the idea goes back to orthochromatic film processing, and that someone thought the red light gave the right mood.

So then it was established in the film-goer's mind that darkroom implies red, unless the film-goer had actually been in a darkroom. That proportion being very small, it was easier to comfort the mistaken belief than educate the majority.

There may be a lesson there.
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Jeff

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2017, 06:06:18 AM »

It might be nice to have free "teasers" of some of the videos available.

Eric

But there is.
Some segments, even for Lightroom & Capture One Pro tutorials are free.

Indicated as FREE VIEW

perhaps a suggestion could be to somehow make a " collection " of them with links to the " subscriber only " segments.

this would make it easier to find them  :)
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2017, 07:13:37 AM »

Once again thank you for the comments.  Chris and I have been quiet here as we have been at Leica (Wetzlar, Germany) for a week doing a behind the scenes video that we both think you will enjoy.  Lots of great interviews including a fascinating conversation with Dr. Kauffman.  I am now in Copenhagen and will be doing a few days with Phase OIne catching up on their latest offerings.  Meanwhile, Chris is finishing the edit on our next Shooting With The Masters featuring Charlie Cramer.  There is some really good material in that upcoming release too.  We are just about to close another round of granting for the Endowment and that has us busy too.  Once I get home there are a number of reviews and new products that I will be posting information about.

So, we are all busy.  I have also done a few workshops to Iceland and Greenland on top of all of the above.  Frankly, I am looking forward to getting home and completing some of these not to mention just being home.  We will also be launching workshops to Japan, Svalbard, Greenland, Antarctica and the Palouse.  Workshops are a big part of keeping LuLa going so I hope you may want to join us on one of the upcoming trips. 

I know many of you would like to see the video journal concept come back.  Well, that was a different time.  Before YouTube and our own ability to embed videos on the site.  However, I have heard you and Chris and I have been batting around some ideas.  We'll have to see how these ideas develop.  For now, though we feel we have an impressive amount of fresh and different content that will be coming your way.

Our small team is very passionate about this site and the work we do.  We are in an industry that is growing and changing very fast.  We are adapting to this in a way that keeps us fresh and different.  This is the way Michael would have wanted it and no one knows this better than Chris and I being two of his best friends. As part of the LuLa family, I invite you to consider contributing content to the site and to share your knowledge and experience with others just as our great contributors have.   Another great big thank you to the many who have articles on this site.  What other site dives deep into paper reviews like Mark Segal does. If you have ideas or want to contribute to the site PM me.

Also, thank you, Chris, for your guidance as well as your talents with our videos.  Debra also keeps the site going on a daily basis and has lifted a huge burden off of my shoulders.  Our web team Crafted is also working as part of our team adding new features and capabilities to the Endowment site and LuLa.  Please check out the video link on the upper right side of the homepage.  You may be surprised at what is available on LuLa. We will also be launching a new Endowment site real soon.

Thank you for being part of Luminous-Landscape. 


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2017, 05:03:03 AM »

LL remains an amazing resource to me!

Thanks Kevin for all the great work being done.

Michael also was focusing on the equipment he was using himself, so I have zero issues with my own gear (D850 and H6D-100c) getting very little mention here. Since I already know how amazing these are, I am in fact more interested in hearing about equipment I don't own (yet). ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Rob C

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2017, 07:00:27 AM »

I used to walk round marinas salivating. I now walk around marinas for exercise.

Rob

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2017, 09:54:15 AM »

Once again thank you for the comments.  Chris and I have been quiet here as we have been at Leica (Wetzlar, Germany) for a week doing a behind the scenes video that we both think you will enjoy.  Lots of great interviews including a fascinating conversation with Dr. Kauffman.  I am now in Copenhagen and will be doing a few days with Phase OIne catching up on their latest offerings.  Meanwhile, Chris is finishing the edit on our next Shooting With The Masters featuring Charlie Cramer.  There is some really good material in that upcoming release too.  We are just about to close another round of granting for the Endowment and that has us busy too.  Once I get home there are a number of reviews and new products that I will be posting information about.

Looking forward to hearing about Phase One's reactions to the apparent market success of the GFX and the X1D and Phase's own plans for a mirrorless system. I am sure they provided most of the details!
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Dave Rosser

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2017, 10:27:34 AM »

Looking forward to hearing about Phase One's reactions to the apparent market success of the GFX and the X1D and Phase's own plans for a mirrorless system. I am sure they provided most of the details!
See here for Phase One's current mirrorless.  8)
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skirkp

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2017, 04:44:28 AM »

See here for Phase One's current mirrorless.  8)

Interesting to see the 100 series back on a simple frame and lens.  A few years ago I got the P45+ from Bear Photo in Palo Alto (who had a role in the B/W 39 MPx achromatic backs that Phase One developed) to use on my Hasselblad SWC.  I stopped in not long ago to see if the 100s could be used the same way, but he advised me that the Hassy gear was not accurate enough to use at that resolution.  But the ALPA setup you linked to looks exactly like the SWC setup -- same layout, some external cable, similar handling and viewfinder.  I'm intrigued.  Of course, it probably costs as much as 10 X1Ds.
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Rand47

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2017, 10:42:07 AM »

I, too, share some of the feeling that “things are not the same.”  There are several reasons for this, I think.  First and foremost, our sense of “difference” is a tribute of sorts to a truly unique human being.  Michael’s combination of curiosity, erudition, simple joy in image making, child like sense of humor at times, curmudgeonly sensitilby at times, prescience in sensing what was/is going on in the industry and where it might lead, boldness to be on the cutting edge of recognizing that digital was “for real” . . .   All this and a lot more are truly irreplaceable.  Kevin and Chris are doing a wonderful job, but it “can’t” be the same.

Another contributing factor, for me at least, is that LuLa tracked the development of Lightroom from release to release, with great insight (and input!) into Lightroom’s direction - along with wonderful “insider information and insight” provided by Eric Chan and Jeff Schewe.  This was intoxicating stuff, for me at least.  With both the maturation of these tools, and Adobe’s seeming shift in emphasis in how it sees its own product (mobile & the horrible mistake on changing the import module), this whole aspect of “LuLa-vision” is pretty much gone.

Then there was what I consider to be “the magic” of Michael and Jeff in the tutorial videos.  Holy cats, in some ways there couldn’t be two more different people - yet the synergy was awesome (and I don’t use that word often).  From both a content perspective, and an entertainment perspective, these videos are “way more” than the sum of their parts.  Probably the best thing I’ve seen lately is the “too short” video of Jeff and Kevin on soft-proofing.  It has “some” of the same elements. 

Then there’s the aspect of being a victim of its own success... we see a lot of new folk at LuLa who are “newer” to serious image making, and perhaps have migrated here from less polite web communities.  It changes the tone of things, somewhat, but I guess is unavaoidable with the passage of time.

Tempos fugit . . .

This is still the best photography web site on the Internet, IMO.  I still find that I learn more here than anywhere else.  Kevin, Chris and company are doing a good job!

Rand
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Rob C

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2017, 12:24:39 PM »

I, too, share some of the feeling that “things are not the same.”  There are several reasons for this, I think.  First and foremost, our sense of “difference” is a tribute of sorts to a truly unique human being.  Michael’s combination of curiosity, erudition, simple joy in image making, child like sense of humor at times, curmudgeonly sensitilby at times, prescience in sensing what was/is going on in the industry and where it might lead, boldness to be on the cutting edge of recognizing that digital was “for real” . . .   All this and a lot more are truly irreplaceable.  Kevin and Chris are doing a wonderful job, but it “can’t” be the same.

Another contributing factor, for me at least, is that LuLa tracked the development of Lightroom from release to release, with great insight (and input!) into Lightroom’s direction - along with wonderful “insider information and insight” provided by Eric Chan and Jeff Schewe.  This was intoxicating stuff, for me at least.  With both the maturation of these tools, and Adobe’s seeming shift in emphasis in how it sees its own product (mobile & the horrible mistake on changing the import module), this whole aspect of “LuLa-vision” is pretty much gone.

Then there was what I consider to be “the magic” of Michael and Jeff in the tutorial videos.  Holy cats, in some ways there couldn’t be two more different people - yet the synergy was awesome (and I don’t use that word often).  From both a content perspective, and an entertainment perspective, these videos are “way more” than the sum of their parts.  Probably the best thing I’ve seen lately is the “too short” video of Jeff and Kevin on soft-proofing.  It has “some” of the same elements. 

Then there’s the aspect of being a victim of its own success... we see a lot of new folk at LuLa who are “newer” to serious image making, and perhaps have migrated here from less polite web communities.  It changes the tone of things, somewhat, but I guess is unavaoidable with the passage of time.

Tempos fugit . . .

This is still the best photography web site on the Internet, IMO.  I still find that I learn more here than anywhere else.  Kevin, Chris and company are doing a good job!

Rand


Rand,

Well, I learned whatever I know about Photoshop from two main sources: before I joined LuLa I used to frequent the BJP website-as-was and a few people there were very helpful to me in answering questions about digital which, to me, was all about another planet. Sadly, it also hosted some truly dreadful people and the moderation was pretty much zero, and so I gave up on being insulted; the next time I held my nose and peeped it had closed (the open website forum, that is). It was a pity, because I met some people there with whom I converse to this day. Just shows you what poor control does to websites. The other place of learning is here: LuLa. Not so much from the "management" as from individuals who when asked, seem perfectly happy to pass on their knowledge, for which I thank them.

The LuLa videos seldom interested me very much; being so product related they passed me by except for the M9 release which upset my GAS problem - well, created one for a short while.

You touched on the differences in membership make-up; I think that for me, that has been a noticeable difference and it began before Michael's passing, so from my perspective, I am unwilling to accept any sort of responsibility falling onto Chris or Kevin as being a little guilty of causing unwanted mood changes that had started before they were left to cope with LuLa on their own.

It's difficult to be explicit, simply because change happened slowly, but what I do miss is the presence of a few really excellent professionals who submitted images and written posts quite regularly. I can understand that they might have become disenchanted, and that's inevitably the effect of mixing oil and water: the pro/am thing. It don't really mix, no way no how.

I was a pro all my adult working life; now I am retired and an amateur again, and my photographic interest has been dramatically curtailed by dint of the shooting opportunites of yesteryear being long dead. That makes one helluva big hole in your soul. So how to fill it? The only practical way I found was a return to one's very early inspirational roots, and that's where I eventually rediscovered Saul Leiter, who's work went well beyond models (my own specialty) and encompassed a fairly gentle form of steet photography which owed those divine creatures nothing. That, once I saw it again, offered me a filling for the personal vacuum, and that's the genre that has grabbed me - on and off - ever since. So with that as genre, I don't feel the lack of interesting professionals as much as I would otherwise. Apart from all those things, were I still working I simply wouldn't have had time to spend here. Period. Perhaps that's part of what has stopped others.

Something else that seems to affect me is the change within the Coffee Corner. I realise that I also occasionally fall victim to slipping, knowingly, into the dumbest of traps such as that damned US election thing and its never-ending saga of infinitely repeated political mantras (and now the gun thing), but I also note that it has brought about a difference in the way people respond to one another. A new bitterness and actual dislike of some people has surfaced, and that permeates throughout like a bad smell. I so wish that some of those sad threads had never opened.

Of course, the fact that LuLa is drifting ever more into an almost totally gear-freak site has not helped. From my perspective, as mentioned before, gear is hardly of much interest because I realised many, many decades ago that once I had the basic, reliable tools needed, the rest was always going to be limited by what I could do behind that camera and by what was in front of it, to equal degree. It's obvious that pretty much the majority here fails to grasp that basic fact, ever seeking and discussing the latest toy in some desperate hope of buying talent. That's pretty boring, and means that much of the LuLa content gets skipped, so not a lot remains for me. Fortunately, I enjoy writing too, and thus I do find a little outlet here for that, even if not really for my photography.

Perhaps, as somebody suggested, it boils down to the passing of an entire era in photography, and that's not fixable. But it is sad to observe the present, and to remember better times.

Rob

Kevin Raber

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Re: Has LuLa passed its prime?
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2017, 01:03:07 PM »

Quote
I, too, share some of the feeling that “things are not the same.”  There are several reasons for this, I think.  First and foremost, our sense of “difference” is a tribute of sorts to a truly unique human being.  Michael’s combination of curiosity, erudition, simple joy in image making, child like sense of humor at times, curmudgeonly sensitilby at times, prescience in sensing what was/is going on in the industry and where it might lead, boldness to be on the cutting edge of recognizing that digital was “for real” . . .   All this and a lot more are truly irreplaceable.  Kevin and Chris are doing a wonderful job, but it “can’t” be the same.

Another contributing factor, for me at least, is that LuLa tracked the development of Lightroom from release to release, with great insight (and input!) into Lightroom’s direction - along with wonderful “insider information and insight” provided by Eric Chan and Jeff Schewe.  This was intoxicating stuff, for me at least.  With both the maturation of these tools, and Adobe’s seeming shift in emphasis in how it sees its own product (mobile & the horrible mistake on changing the import module), this whole aspect of “LuLa-vision” is pretty much gone.

Then there was what I consider to be “the magic” of Michael and Jeff in the tutorial videos.  Holy cats, in some ways there couldn’t be two more different people - yet the synergy was awesome (and I don’t use that word often).  From both a content perspective, and an entertainment perspective, these videos are “way more” than the sum of their parts.  Probably the best thing I’ve seen lately is the “too short” video of Jeff and Kevin on soft-proofing.  It has “some” of the same elements. 

Then there’s the aspect of being a victim of its own success... we see a lot of new folk at LuLa who are “newer” to serious image making, and perhaps have migrated here from less polite web communities.  It changes the tone of things, somewhat, but I guess is unavaoidable with the passage of time.

Tempos fugit . . .

This is still the best photography web site on the Internet, IMO.  I still find that I learn more here than anywhere else.  Kevin, Chris and company are doing a good job!

Rand

No, it can't be the same but it can be a new different.  My voice and personality is different from Michael's but my passion isn't.  As a result of many changes we (the LuLa team) look for new content and ways to offer new things.  We have plenty of good articles from contributors.  Chris and I have been working on three projects we hope offer up a lot of interest which are as stated before, Charlie Cramer in the next Shooting with the Masters, Behind the Scenes at Leica and NEW stuff from Phase One.  This will be in addition to a number of articles on new gear, software and other types of products.  Chris and I just got back from 2 weeks on the road.  He's now in big time editing mode.  I am in catch up mode to finsih a number of articles not to mention finalize the next round of Endowment granting and launching some cool workshops for the next couple of years. 

It's been hard for us to loose Michael.  But we need to stop looking to the past and look at today and the future.  This is what Michael and I did before he passed.  We have been implementing a lot of changes as we have mentioned in responses above.  We will have fresh content, we will do the occasional gear review on items that interest me.  We will also do projects that no one else is doing and sharing these with our readers.

I think we have heard a lot from those who have posted here and we have heard you.  You have heard from us too.  If you have ideas please as I have said often Personal Message me.  In the meantime we will keep working on the things we have on our plate and there is a lot of them. 

As far as Lightroom and tutorials go. We'll have to see. There have been no exceptional new features to speak of in Lightroom that we haven't already covered in videos.  I know Thomas and Eric both very well.  And, when there is somethig significant with Lightroom we'll look at it and do a new update or maybe even a brand new tutorial.   We will also do the same things with Phase One and Capture One.  We promised on our Capture One 10 update tutorial that with the next big release of C1 we would start from scratch and do a completely new tutorial.  So, when both of these companies have something we will be ready.  There are also a number of other new products out there we are looking at too.  I do hope that Jeff will be back in some future tutorial also.  Jeff and I are going to be shooting together in early November.  We'll see what come from that  ;).

Thanks again for the feedback and for being part of our family.

I think it's time to lock this topic and get back to bsuiness. You know how to reach me.

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