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Author Topic: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless  (Read 5830 times)

rollsman44

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Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« on: September 16, 2017, 12:40:46 pm »

  I am wondering whats in the wind for this year and 2018. I am going to NYC Photo Expo and should find out then. Thanks
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 01:06:21 pm »

Pure speculation thread so here it goes :D

I'm guessing by the end of 2018 we'll have something like a 150mp "full frame" medium format sensor and a 75mp "cropped frame" medium format sensor with Phase and Hasselblad offering both first in their digital backs/large camera DSLR bodies.  Possibly an end of 2018 announcement of a Pentax 645Z II, Fuji GFX MK II and Hasselblad X2D with the new higher megapixel cropped sensor for 2019 delivery.  I would expect at minimum that the cropped frame sensors will have on sensor phase detect capability and it would be really great if the full frame sensors had that as well opening the door for good performance EVF options on the big cameras.    I would not be surprised if a third vendor offers a sub $10K mirrorless medium format camera.

My guess would be a significant build out of both the Fuji and Hasselblad GFX/X1D lens line by the end of 2018 including a zoom for the Hasselblad.  Phase really needs to do something about the 28mm lens - the current version just isn't up to the demands of the 100mp sensor, it was marginal at 60 and is pretty bad in the corners on the 80 and 100.

4K and possibly 6/8K video will come to medium format in the next generation

On my personal wish list front would be a really high quality 24mm lens for the Phase One system as well as a snap on EVF and a HAP3 AF system with multiple AF points.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 01:12:11 pm by E.J. Peiker »
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landscapephoto

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 05:38:57 pm »

Pure speculation thread so here it goes :D

I'm guessing by the end of 2018 (...)

By September 2018. 2018 is a Photokina year (26-29/9/2018)...
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Paul2660

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 07:57:56 pm »

I would be surprised if the next cropped sensor is not 100mp and both Fuji and Hasselblad have shipping product by 3rd quarter 2018.

P1 and mirrorless anyone's  guess.

Paul Caldwell

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 08:03:07 pm »

I would be surprised if the next cropped sensor is not 100mp and both Fuji and Hasselblad have shipping product by 3rd quarter 2018.

Which means 150mp full frame sensors in about the same time frame.

As far as I am concerned, I would not understand the H7D-150c and XF IQ4-150 not offering at least an optional EVF. Whether it would feature AF or not I am not sure.

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 04:23:11 am »

MF sensors roadmap from Sony is public: https://m.dpreview.com/news/1171953770/sony-s-sensor-roadmap-includes-150mp-medium-format-chip-for-2018

You already can see there they are planning a 100 mp cropped sensor and a 150 mp for next year... from there it is easy to speculate what other manufacturer is going to release next year...


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Bo_Dez

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 10:33:55 am »

New Leica S. Rumoured 60-80MP. Possibly mirrorless.
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tcdeveau

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 01:29:52 pm »

As far as lenses go, we already know Fuji has some new GF lenses in the pipeline, at least a 250mm and 1.4x TC from their roadmap here: http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/roadmap/index.html.  I've seen rumors of an 80-180mm zoom, which would be awesome IMHO.  The GFX and 23mm/32-64mm/80-180mm would be a killer travel landscape setup. 

Hasselblad has more XCD lenses in the pipeline as well, with a 120mm Macro that B&H says should ship end of Sept. 2017.  They have also announced a 22mm, 65mm, and 35-75mm which we should expect in 2018 at some point (announcement here: http://www.hasselblad.com/press/press-releases/hasselblad-announces-four-new-xcd-lenses-for-the-x1d).  I'm looking forward especially to the 65mm and 35-75mm to fill the current hole I've got between the 45mm and 90mm XCD. 

The Sony MF sensor roadmap has been public for quite some time (link posted above).  They've got a 100mp 33x44mm BSI sensor and a 150mp 40x54mm FSI ("normal" and monochrome) slated for 2018.  From the Sony sensor roadmap, I'd expect a GFX 2 and an X2D sometime in 2018 or early 2019 with the 100mp 33x44mm sensor.  I would also expect perhaps the next gen 40x54mm cameras from Phase and Hasselblad (H7D and IQ4 maybe?) sometime in 2018 or early 2019 but who knows.  I'm not sure how the current Phase and Hasselblad lens lineup would perform with a 150mp sensor, but we'll see.  Some updates to lenses from both Phase and Hasselblad for the FF 40x54mm format would be nice.  I'm curious to see when manufacturers announce cameras with the new sensors. 

I don't know what is going on with Pentax and the 645z, it's due for an update, but I'm not convinced Pentax is so committed to the system as we haven't even seen the new 45-85mm and 80-160mm they put on a lens roadmap back in 2016 (https://pentaxrumors.com/2016/02/27/updated-2016-pentax-k-645-and-q-lens-roadmap/pentax-645-mount-lens-roadmap-2016/).  They've updated the roadmap in Feb 2017 (http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/645_Mount_Lens.pdf) and pushed back those two lenses to "2017 or later" from the 2016 roadmap. 

I would also imagine Leica would update their S camera at some point in the near future.  I think they're going to need up the resolution pretty considerably if they hope to sell many MF cameras in the future....

I'm really looking forward to the next generation of Sony sensors and will try to make the jump to a 100mp system when that happens....mostly likely either in the form of an X2D or used H6D-100c/IQ3100.  I'll just have to see how all the variables play out, and enjoy my X1D until then :)
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Pics2

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 01:44:59 pm »

By September 2018. 2018 is a Photokina year (26-29/9/2018)...
There is no Photokina year anymore :) Starting 2018., it will take place every year.
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aztwang

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 03:23:15 am »

So what changes would we see in IQ if lets say Phase 1 produced a full frame in 50 or 75MP. Would the pixel size approach the "Fat Pixel" size
which many feel is magical? Would it all make sense? Personally I am fine with 50mp for the portrait work that I do. I keep my system
because I love the skin tones that the Phase produces, there's nothing that comes close in my opinion. That coupled with the ability to control
bright ambient light with leaf shutters, thats all i need....

Cheers

Don
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tintoreto

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 03:36:35 pm »

A Sony mirrorless medium format camera... 8)
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henrikfoto

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 05:17:11 pm »

A Sony mirrorless medium format camera... 8)

I am sure that will not happen.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Whats NEW for 2017/2018 in Med Format or MF Mirrorless
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 05:42:08 pm »

I've seen speculation about a Sony MF mirrorless from a number of sources. One interesting possibility is that it might be a fixed-lens camera (similar to the RX1 series). That seems to make more sense than an interchangeable lens mirrorless based n the 50 MP sensor , given the rest of Sony's product line (I think we can rule out a MF DSLR from a company that has never made any sort of MF SLR, and had never made any SLRs at all until they bought some from Minolta). Both Fuji and Hasselblad made sense for MF mirrorless - Fuji had a huge amount of experience with MF optics (both from the film era, and making lenses for Hasselblad DSLRs), and had a very popular APS-C mirrorless system topping out at 24 MP (with a lot of pro users, many of whom used Fuji mirrorless alongside Canon or Nikon DSLRs) that they needed a "big brother" to. Hasselblad had a big MF DSLR system that they wanted a walk-around counterpart to. Neither was in the high-res FF DSLR (or mirrorless) market that might compete with MF mirrorless.
Sony, on the other hand, is the leader in high-res FF mirrorless, with a 42 MP body that comes very close to the resolution and general performance of the 50 MP MF sensor. The replacement for the A7RII will very likely be OVER 50 MP, with close to MF dynamic range and noise performance (the D850, which uses a Sony-derived sensor, is already very, very close to that 50 MP sensor, and the A7RII isn't far off itself). Spec-obsessed Sony wouldn't enjoy trying to sell a system with only limited extra resolution and much slower performance than their own A7RII, based on less tangible aspects of image quality.

If Sony is going to try to do an MF mirrorless, this leaves them three options if the 50 MP sensor on an interchangeable lens body is too close to the A7RII and upcoming A7RIII.

1.) Shoehorn the 100 MP 645 sensor into a mirrorless body (possible - Fuji's and Mamiya's film-era Texas Leicas weren't that huge, and many of them used formats larger than 645 - there was even a 6x17, although that DID get big). That leaves Sony with a probably hugely expensive body (that sensor has never been seen in anything selling for less than $30,000, while Pentax already had the 50 MP crop sensor in a $7000 DSLR body before Fuji and Hasselblad came along), and a need for lenses with a large image circle.

2.) Wait for the 100 MP sensor the size of the current 50 MP (late 2018?) and do a body based on that. If APS-C mirrorless (where their major competitor is  Fuji just like they'd be taking on here) is any guide, the Sony would be the smallest possible body that could hold the sensor, sacrificing some control flexibility. It would be cheaper than the 100 MP GFX derivative, and would probably have more firmware features, but less hardware control, than the Fuji. It might look oddly like the Hasselblad, although perhaps without the jewel-like build quality. Sony might well have trouble getting lenses out for it, which Fuji is VERY good at...

3.) Build a fixed-lens camera, possibly based on the 50 MP sensor, that significantly undercuts Fuji and Hasselblad on weight (and maybe price). This could even be "practice" for an interchangeable lens variant once the 100 MP sensor comes out. Fuji did that with the original X100 (the X-Pro 1 was kind of an X100 with a lens mount), and Sony did it themselves with the Rx1 (which certainly foreshadowed the A7 series).
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