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Author Topic: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler  (Read 350 times)

Daverich

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M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« on: September 13, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »

I realize this is a noob question but the directions with i1Profiler are somewhat lacking. My understanding of the Dual scan feature is that the appropriate readings for all modes are taken at one time. If I measure my targets with M0 set for Measurement conditions and create a profile from those measurements can I then go back, change the Measurement conditions to M1 and then use the SAME measurements to create a profile with M1? Or do I need to change the Measurement conditions to M1 and Re-Measure the targets to create an M1 profile? Like I said, my understanding is the Dual scan captures all the measurements at one time but I'm not sure. Thanks.

Dave
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Doug Gray

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 03:55:49 PM »

I realize this is a noob question but the directions with i1Profiler are somewhat lacking. My understanding of the Dual scan feature is that the appropriate readings for all modes are taken at one time. If I measure my targets with M0 set for Measurement conditions and create a profile from those measurements can I then go back, change the Measurement conditions to M1 and then use the SAME measurements to create a profile with M1? Or do I need to change the Measurement conditions to M1 and Re-Measure the targets to create an M1 profile? Like I said, my understanding is the Dual scan captures all the measurements at one time but I'm not sure. Thanks.

Dave
You do not need to re-measure when the original scan was in "dual mode."  All modes, M0, M1, and M2 are stored. They are even stored in the generated profile if you leave the default checked to store spectral info in the profiles. You can create the other two profiles by dragging and dropping the ICC profile from the assets listed on the left into the "measurement" box then select the desired M mode, illuminant, and profile generation options. Easy way to check different perceptual intent sliders such as "colorful."
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Ethan Hansen

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 04:01:17 PM »

The only time you cannot build a profile for another M-mode is if the measurements were for M2 UV excluded mode. Then only one measurement pass is made, skipping the UV illumination.

Doug Gray

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 04:51:42 PM »

The only time you cannot build a profile for another M-mode is if the measurements were for M2 UV excluded mode. Then only one measurement pass is made, skipping the UV illumination.

It's different between the I1Isis and I1Pro 2.  The single scan I1Pro 2 is M0, the I1Isis single scan is M2. The dual scan mode uses a uV led on the second pass to measure uV response and the other two modes are synthesized from that. M1 is, of course, always synthesized. Whenever the dual scan mode is selected, all three "M" modes are recorded and saved.
 
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Daverich

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 06:01:54 PM »

You do not need to re-measure when the original scan was in "dual mode."  All modes, M0, M1, and M2 are stored. They are even stored in the generated profile if you leave the default checked to store spectral info in the profiles. You can create the other two profiles by dragging and dropping the ICC profile from the assets listed on the left into the "measurement" box then select the desired M mode, illuminant, and profile generation options. Easy way to check different perceptual intent sliders such as "colorful."

Doug,

Thanks a lot for the response. Like so many have commented on before in these forums, I wish that there were some more detailed instructions available. Andrew Rodney's book, Color Management for Photographers has all kinds of explanations of dialogs and advanced tips for Profilemaker. My copy is full of post-it notes of things I found of interest. While I realize the basic information is still valid, I sure wish he'd update it for i! Profiler. Thanks again for your help.

Dave
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digitaldog

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 08:28:44 PM »

Run dual measurement, build the profiles each way, test the output.
There's so much within i1Profiler that doesn't work (or do anything), it's difficult to proved valid info about the product.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 01:50:09 AM »

I realize this is a noob question but the directions with i1Profiler are somewhat lacking.

Dave

It's a perfectly valid question, and your statement about directions being "somewhat lacking" is a masterpiece of understatement. X-Rite is one of the of the most irresponsible outfits in the industry and the manner in which they are selling this product is both disgraceful and counter-productive.

Rant out of the way, Andrew is right - scan in dual scan mode. Then build three profiles, by going back to the measurement tab and selecting the successive M0, M1, M2 conditions and reverting to the Profile tab to build another profile with that condition selected. When you save the successive profiles, indicate in the profile name whether it is an M0, M1 or M2. Then make three test prints, one with each profile and retain the one that gives you the best results. I use the accuracy testing procedures I described in my paper reviews of this website for doing that. There are also small variances of gamut between them, which are normally safe to ignore. For me, the accuracy of colour and tone rendition are more important. If the paper you are using contains OBAs, there is a chance that M0 and M1 profiles will create a yellowish version of white. This is an over-correction of blue created by the reading of the UV from the action of the OBAs. For these situations, selecting the M2 profile will usually give more pleasing results.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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narikin

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 02:58:52 PM »

And if it's an oba free paper, like Legacy Platine, or Cansons one, is it worth going dual? Strictly speaking there should be no difference, and you'll save a lot of time, but...?

I agree a lot is not working or broken. I can see hardly any difference in regular/colorful/saturation outputs. Can others? There is a difference in D50/ D65 profiles though.



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Doug Gray

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Re: M0 or M1 profiles with i1Profiler
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 05:50:14 PM »

And if it's an oba free paper, like Legacy Platine, or Cansons one, is it worth going dual? Strictly speaking there should be no difference, and you'll save a lot of time, but...?
No, Use whatever's the fastest. M0 for I1Pro 2 or M2 for Isis. Even if you have some OBA  there is not much difference in Relative or Perceptual Intents because they scale to the media white point. But you will see a significant difference using Absolute Intent.
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I agree a lot is not working or broken. I can see hardly any difference in regular/colorful/saturation outputs. Can others? There is a difference in D50/ D65 profiles though.
I don't see much difference. I wound up measuring the differences and they are tiny.
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