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Author Topic: P1 trichromatic  (Read 1696 times)

BernardLanguillier

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P1 trichromatic
« on: September 13, 2017, 07:08:00 AM »

The quick read gave me the impression that this new sensor only offers a modified color filter.

Is there more to it than that?

Cheers,
Bernard
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 08:24:49 AM »

New base ISO of 35 compared to 50 in the older 100mp back.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 08:44:08 AM »

I assume lens cast is still at the same level as before too? 
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Paul2660

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 08:46:59 AM »

Cast may be less but a good question.

By creation of this back P1 has admitted to the issue of crosstalk and seems to feel this back addresses that issue. But no mention of the magenta color cast on shifting.

Paul Caldwell
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scyth

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 09:15:47 AM »

The quick read gave me the impression that this new sensor only offers a modified color filter.

Is there more to it than that?

Cheers,
Bernard

"new CMOS sensor designed to capture color as perceived by the human eye."

so did they make CFA w/ Luther-Ives like SSF
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eronald

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 09:24:57 AM »

"new CMOS sensor designed to capture color as perceived by the human eye."

so did they make CFA w/ Luther-Ives like SSF

There is just one small problem, men and women mostly don't have the same red pigment.
Other than doing things multispectrally you will always make a large segment of viewers unhappy with the reproduced color.

Edmund
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kers

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »

As i understand they also copied the hasselblad focus and recompose idea.

Good color on a $$$ ( most expensive?) back seems not to much asked- but to make it a selling point now- what do old costumers think about that?

and what is perfect colour in the desert just before sunset shooting models with extravagant coloured clothing and makup?

marketing.... ugh

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Steve Hendrix

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 12:52:07 PM »

As i understand they also copied the hasselblad focus and recompose idea.

Good color on a $$$ ( most expensive?) back seems not to much asked- but to make it a selling point now- what do old costumers think about that?

and what is perfect colour in the desert just before sunset shooting models with extravagant coloured clothing and makup?

marketing.... ugh


This is not the case. I believe Phase One's implementation is quite different:

What has not yet been detailed in our blog post is the way that the Phase One AFr works - which could be quite different than how Hasselblad's True Focus works - (as alluded to by JDuncan in a post on another thread).

Essentially, the AFr mode is employing predictive intelligence based on learned behavior from how the user moves. Your first shot, you may hear a "meh" audible feedback from the XF. What it is saying, that one is maybe not so on target. But the second and successive shots will learn how you're moving and adjust and dial in based on that learned intelligence.

It sounds improbable, but so far in our testing, seems to work extremely well. So, for a given set of shots, you'd drop a first shot to let the camera know the general way you're moving. When you would change your movement or angle dramatically to another set of shots, the same thing, you'd inform the AFr what you're doing (roughly) with the first shot, and it will get the hang if it quite quickly.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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alan_b

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 01:26:27 PM »

Cast may be less but a good question.

By creation of this back P1 has admitted to the issue of crosstalk and seems to feel this back addresses that issue. But no mention of the magenta color cast on shifting.

Paul Caldwell

I wonder if P1's use of "crosstalk" is referring to Bayer filter passband overlap, as opposed to well-well contamination happening within the sensor structure?

E.J. Peiker

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 02:02:00 PM »

I wonder if P1's use of "crosstalk" is referring to Bayer filter passband overlap, as opposed to well-well contamination happening within the sensor structure?

That is exactly what they are referring to.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 03:40:50 PM »

That is exactly what they are referring to.

If spectral overlap of the passbands is what they mean, it's confusing, since you will have immense capture metameric error if there is no such overlap; spectral stimuli will excite only one set of receptors.

Jim

narikin

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 05:49:55 PM »

So I understand the rationale for this back, and that these high cut color filters mean a tighter colour to the photosites, and consequently less light, hence the base iso of 35. So what happens if you use a higher iso like simply 50 or 100?

Reminds me of the old IQ180, with it's 35iso base, though that meant you could work at 50 with little cost. At 100asa it began to degrade and be borderline. Anything above that was terrible.
Is this the same?

I've gotten used to the IQ100 and being able to work with 200 as an everyday default, would be very sad to sacrifice that!
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Jim Kasson

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 06:01:15 PM »

So I understand the rationale for this back, and that these high cut color filters mean a tighter colour to the photosites, and consequently less light, hence the base iso of 35. So what happens if you use a higher iso like simply 50 or 100?

Reminds me of the old IQ180, with its 35iso base, though that meant you could work at 50 with little cost. At 100asa it began to degrade and be borderline. Anything above that was terrible.
Is this the same?

Shouldn't be. CMOS sensor.

eronald

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 06:15:06 PM »

Shouldn't be. CMOS sensor.

can someone post a link to tech details that arent marketingoink?

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 07:02:49 PM »

At the risk of coming accross a bit cynical, I guess that what this really means is that the 150mp sensor based backs won't be available early enough to maintain P1's revenue on target? ;)

But hey, great if this really results in significantly better images. It just sounds like a pretty shy annoucement by P1 standards.

Cheers,
Bernard
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eronald

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 07:26:38 PM »

At the risk of coming accross a bit cynical, I guess that what this really means is that the 150mp sensor based backs won't be available early enough to maintain P1's revenue on target? ;)

But hey, great if this really results in significantly better images. It just sounds like a pretty shy annoucement by P1 standards.

Cheers,
Bernard

No, it means Sony have just patented a new stacked sensor tech and are preparing to throw away Bayer forever.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/09/13/sony-go-organic-with-a-new-vertical-colour-separation-sensor/

Edmund
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davidgp

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 01:55:41 AM »

No, it means Sony have just patented a new stacked sensor tech and are preparing to throw away Bayer forever.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/09/13/sony-go-organic-with-a-new-vertical-colour-separation-sensor/

Edmund


Sony and Canon have been releasing for several years now patents of Foveon-like designs... it does not mean a product is being prepared to be released soon...


http://dgpfotografia.com

narikin

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 04:16:22 AM »

Shouldn't be. CMOS sensor.

So it's the same 100mp IQ sensor but with tighter filters, that drop sensitivity by 2/3 of a stop? (The IQ100 has a base iso of 50 or... 100?)

If it can work well at 100 it's usable to me, maybe just so at 50, but if to get the benefits of this super-color, you must be at 35asa, then you're chained to a tripod for absolutely everything, which is no good for me, but ymmv.

I'll try one out once my dealer has a sample, but in all likelihood will wait for the coming 150 back.
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eronald

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 05:37:34 AM »


Sony and Canon have been releasing for several years now patents of Foveon-like designs... it does not mean a product is being prepared to be released soon...


http://dgpfotografia.com

everyone is looking for a drop-in solution. Foveon needs an ugly amount of processing to recover the channel data
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FelixWu

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Re: P1 trichromatic
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 07:06:34 AM »

I am sure the "old" IQ3100 back is good enough. These cameras are so darn heavy that it should be on tripod anyway.
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