Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )  (Read 2241 times)

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10588
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »

Now the pricing makes sense relative to the X1D.

But I am still not sure whether the image quality gap of these 50mp small MF sensors justifies all the sacrifices you need to do compared to, say, a D850. That is even if you forget about the price difference.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged
A few images online here!

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 08:36:23 PM »

Now the pricing makes sense relative to the X1D.

But I am still not sure whether the image quality gap of these 50mp small MF sensors justifies all the sacrifices you need to do compared to, say, a D850. That is even if you forget about the price difference.

Cheers,
Bernard

Pricing doesn't yet make sense compared to the Fuji GFX 50s, or the Pentax 645Z so there's still plenty of room downwards.

Nowadays I would assume the sensor price difference for a crop 50c sensor is less than 2x compared to a cutting-edge 35mm full format device, because obsolete  production tooling can be used to make what is now an obsolete sensor with obsolete sensor technology. Unfortunately this sets unjustified expectations on pricing for a new 100MP or so crop model which will again need to be made on more current fab lines.

Let's face it, all current 50c Sony based MF products are now effectively on closeout sale. As for the crop format, the economics of the current fashion for 50c based entry level mirrorless are now becoming clearer as the effect of a sensor glut due to Sony's desperate push to newer and better tech, but we've all known that crop is and always will be a kludge, a marketing trick.

Edmund

PS with the old P30 series CCD products etc crop was a sweet point also in device performance, due to peculiarities of the bucket-brigade tech needed to get signals out to the chip edge.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10588
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 09:23:11 PM »

Pricing doesn't yet make sense compared to the Fuji GFX 50s, or the Pentax 645Z so there's still plenty of room downwards.

To some extend, yes.

Now, the H6D offers other opportunities such as usage with a view camera.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged
A few images online here!

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 10:07:39 PM »

To some extend, yes.

Now, the H6D offers other opportunities such as usage with a view camera.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, let's face it, all we're seeing here is a big sign marked $$$SALE$$$ while Hassy blows out excess inventory of H6 body chassis, and gets rid of the 50C sensors before positioning the H6D series for retirement and  moving the XD to a new 80MP or 100MP chip. The price of the H4D40 kit with lens ended up around E10K, I'd say we can expect the H5D50c to fall another 30% within another 6 months.

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:08:29 PM by eronald »
Logged

FelixWu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 02:03:35 AM »

Only few needed that 100+MP. Is tech world evolving too quickly?
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10588
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 02:45:21 AM »

Bernard, let's face it, all we're seeing here is a big sign marked $$$SALE$$$ while Hassy blows out excess inventory of H6 body chassis, and gets rid of the 50C sensors before positioning the H6D series for retirement and  moving the XD to a new 80MP or 100MP chip. The price of the H4D40 kit with lens ended up around E10K, I'd say we can expect the H5D50c to fall another 30% within another 6 months.

I have a different view about the future of the H platform.

My guess is that Hassy will equip the H7D with an optional EVF in place of the standard OVF. This may not work super well with the H AF lenses, but good MF accuracy check in EVF would be great already.

Now... I may not be 100% objective about this.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged
A few images online here!

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 07:14:49 AM »

Only few needed that 100+MP. Is tech world evolving too quickly?

The marketing model of MF as a luxury product forces manufacturers to provide the highest resolutions possible.
Essentially, the qualities of a camera get dumbed down to a single number, megapixels.

Edmund
Logged

Joe Towner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 722
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 12:56:38 PM »

H6D-75c  or there abouts should be launching in the next 3-4 months.  The H6D-50c was really a crutch to get the back components up to current spec's with CFast, etc.  Doing the next gen 33x44 on a full H body is easier than the X2D form factor.  Plus, it allows folks with the X1D to enjoy their investment at current pricing instead of having it discounted already.  The trick is going to be the premium associated with an OVF on the smaller H6 chips.  Is it more than $3-4k?

CPO on the H6D-50c is already 12-13k, and the H5D-50c's from 8-10,500 depending on wifi.

My biggest concern is keeping the volume of H bodies & glass sold high enough.  We want a new 35mm prime, and something like the 75-150mm zoom would be amazing.  But does Hass & Fuji keep the investment up?  The new 1/2000th shutters are amazing, and fast enough (maybe we'll get a bit more with a EFC, but I don't need it).  The only other issue I can see is the challenge of focus, when dealing with a lot of depth near the focus point - 100mp+ totally tattles on you if you don't nail it.
Logged
t: @PNWMF

NickT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 04:00:41 PM »

Bernard, let's face it, all we're seeing here is a big sign marked $$$SALE$$$ while Hassy blows out excess inventory of H6 body chassis, and gets rid of the 50C sensors before positioning the H6D series for retirement and  moving the XD to a new 80MP or 100MP chip. The price of the H4D40 kit with lens ended up around E10K, I'd say we can expect the H5D50c to fall another 30% within another 6 months.

Edmund

Nope.
Logged

Jim Kasson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1824
    • The Last Word
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 04:05:32 PM »

H6D-75c  or there abouts should be launching in the next 3-4 months. 

How do you know that? Where are they going to get the sensor? The next Sony 33x44 sensor is 100 MP, and doesn't ship until 2018.

jim

pschefz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 303
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 04:45:08 PM »

i don't really see a market for the H system anymore....the latest H body is 8000 (!) which is more then GFX and almost X1D....
the last time i handled a H body i was amazed by how far everything else has come....
i understand the marketshare of people who are used to a camera like this or are locked into the H system.....i am not sure anyone else coming from DSLR or mirrorless will pick up a H body and be excited in any way by feel or function....
i think most of these systems (these that do not go to rental places) are leased out and so today a lot of people are paying for a kit that is not worth the payments they might have left on it....
and these are probably the only people left actually interested in the H system....
i guess the 100mpix kit is still (along with the phase offering) the only way to get that kind of IQ and some people will obviously want to need that but i don't see where this is going at all....
Logged
schefz.com
artloch.com

Joe Towner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 722
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »

How do you know that? Where are they going to get the sensor? The next Sony 33x44 sensor is 100 MP, and doesn't ship until 2018.

You're right, the roadmap does layout the 100mp in the 33x44 size.  And by 3-4 months it is January 2018, which would be a prime time for an announcement IMHO.

The big hitch is going to be announcing anything that directly competes with the -100c without upgrading it as well.  Roadmap says it's also on the list for next year, but do we want release dates to be dictated by the 150mp chip?  What's the valuation between a 100mp 33x44 compared to a 40x54? 

Would have been easier if Sony had staggered the MP's between the sizes. 
Logged
t: @PNWMF

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 06:40:13 PM »

Nope.

You mean it'll simply be retired instead?
:)

Edmund
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10588
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 08:03:40 PM »

You're right, the roadmap does layout the 100mp in the 33x44 size.  And by 3-4 months it is January 2018, which would be a prime time for an announcement IMHO.

The big hitch is going to be announcing anything that directly competes with the -100c without upgrading it as well.  Roadmap says it's also on the list for next year, but do we want release dates to be dictated by the 150mp chip?  What's the valuation between a 100mp 33x44 compared to a 40x54? 

The thing is that P1 is in a bad situation due to the lack of mirrorless body in their line up. Today the IQ100 is probably their main money making powerhouse. Phase will certainly want to be the first company out with the 150mp chip, so Hasselblad cannot afford to announce their answer much later if they want to keep the H line up attractive for new entrants in China.

And as I said, I am pretty sure that they will propose an optional EVF for the H7D and so will P1 for the IQ4-150.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged
A few images online here!

pschefz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 303
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 09:04:26 PM »

The thing is that P1 is in a bad situation due to the lack of mirrorless body in their line up. Today the IQ100 is probably their main money making powerhouse. Phase will certainly want to be the first company out with the 150mp chip, so Hasselblad cannot afford to announce their answer much later if they want to keep the H line up attractive for new entrants in China.


phase one must make their money with software these days....their system has a (very, very) small place in the market but i honestly don't know anyone anymore who actually owns or even shoots a phase back or system.....and i have owned several over the years myself....
at least hasselblad has a pretty strong commercial/rental market....its the systems people get for big jobs, even if they end up shooting on their canon anyway....but that is not really a good position to be in either of course....
Logged
schefz.com
artloch.com

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1380
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 11:46:39 PM »

phase one must make their money with software these days....their system has a (very, very) small place in the market but i honestly don't know anyone anymore who actually owns or even shoots a phase back or system.....and i have owned several over the years myself....
at least hasselblad has a pretty strong commercial/rental market....its the systems people get for big jobs, even if they end up shooting on their canon anyway....but that is not really a good position to be in either of course....


Perhaps in your part of the world. If you think Phase One profits are mostly from software, then you do not have an insight into their actual sales and profit numbers. In the USA, Phase One has dominated medium format digital rental for years and continues to do so. Remember, it's a big world, and what you see in your own neighborhood only tells a small part of the story. In fact even in your neighborhood, with the proliferation of enthusiast photographers who can afford medium format, you may not be aware of the complete picture. In the past, we were used to having some sense of who was who and who shot with what when we met our colleagues at the film lab. Doesn't happen anymore. There is a lot of activity in anonymity.


Steve Hendrix/CI
Logged
Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5949
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 10:48:46 AM »

I agree with Steve - however this is a thread about Hassy. I wonder what the lifespan of the H series is now that the XD has started selling well?

Edmund


Perhaps in your part of the world. If you think Phase One profits are mostly from software, then you do not have an insight into their actual sales and profit numbers. In the USA, Phase One has dominated medium format digital rental for years and continues to do so. Remember, it's a big world, and what you see in your own neighborhood only tells a small part of the story. In fact even in your neighborhood, with the proliferation of enthusiast photographers who can afford medium format, you may not be aware of the complete picture. In the past, we were used to having some sense of who was who and who shot with what when we met our colleagues at the film lab. Doesn't happen anymore. There is a lot of activity in anonymity.


Steve Hendrix/CI
Logged

landscapephoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 491
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 04:12:57 PM »

Bernard, let's face it, all we're seeing here is a big sign marked $$$SALE$$$ while Hassy blows out excess inventory of H6 body chassis, and gets rid of the 50C sensors before positioning the H6D series for retirement and  moving the XD to a new 80MP or 100MP chip.

It is not the first price reduction to happen in MF cameras. I see not reason to see it as an end of the H series. On the contrary, the public Sony sensor roadmap would let us expect an H6D-150c or H7D-150c and a 100 mpixels X2D for summer 2018.
Logged

landscapephoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 491
Re: H6D60C price lowered. $14,995 (11,900 // 10,800 )
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 04:16:45 PM »

My guess is that Hassy will equip the H7D with an optional EVF in place of the standard OVF. This may not work super well with the H AF lenses, but good MF accuracy check in EVF would be great already.

I would think that the majority of H users shoot tethered and prefer looking at the image on a large screen than on a tiny EVF. Besides, the AF system in H cameras is quite accurate.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up