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Author Topic: simulating B/W filters in C1  (Read 1147 times)

myotis

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simulating B/W filters in C1
« on: August 19, 2017, 02:11:26 AM »

I've asked this in the Phase One forum, but without an answer do far.

I would like to simulate the effects of the range of filters used with B/W film e.g. No 11, x4 light yellow green, No25 x6 Red etc.

Preferably by matching slider movements to match the measured characteristics of each filter type (I'm not sure what the scale on the sliders represent)

Does anyone know of a source that might give the slider settings based on the transmission characteristics of each filter type.

thanks,

Graham

P.S. I have now found some styles that do this, but not sure how they have been derived

http://www.gaborbarath.com/capture-one-analogue-styles/capture-one-analogue-styles-filter-samples/

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N80

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Re: simulating B/W filters in C1
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2017, 07:06:26 PM »

I can't help you with a specific setting that correlates exactly with a specific color filter. But I'll mention my workflow to show you how I achieve desired filter effects. You probably know all this but some really new users may not.

In any case, consider a landscape with a blue sky and clouds. I like a dark sky in my B&W images. With film I would use a red or orange filter to block transmission of blue light which would yield a print in which blue sky is dark or black.

To do this in CO I edit the image in color until all of the basic parameters are where I want them. Then I convert to B&W. So if I want the effect of a red filter (also called a Minus Blue filter) I would then use the blue slider in the B&W conversion panel and slide it to the left. Likewise with the light blue slider.

If that effect is not enough, of if it posterizes the tones from adjusting too far to the left I then open the Color Editor panel, go to Advanced and use the eyedropper to select and area of blue sky. Increasing the saturation of this tone will darken it and you see this happen in the image. But, the best tool for this the Lightness slider. Sliding it to the left will darken that tone. I find using the Color Editor in conjunction with the B&W panel to give you a huge amount of control of tones in the image without posterizing.

I know this is not what you are looking for but I'm not sure having set parameters that simply duplicate a Red #25 filter is all that useful since you have so much finer control with that using B&W and the Color Editor not only over general tonality but over very specific tones. Using the Color Editor eyedropper and keeping the "Smoothness" slider to the left I can make tonal adjustments to a very narrow range of tones in the image. I think the key is knowing how a traditional filter effects the negative and subsequent print...in other words, knowing that a Red #25 blocks most blue from the image.

Sorry if this was redundant or off topic.
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George

"What is truth?" Pontius  Pilate

myotis

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Re: simulating B/W filters in C1
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 02:49:37 AM »

I can't help you with a specific setting that correlates exactly with a specific color filter. But I'll mention my workflow to show you how I achieve desired filter effects. You probably know all this but some really new users may not.

Thanks, as it so happens I perfectly happy working with B/W in C1.

This was just one of those idle thoughts, that coming from the film days, when people discussed things like why the used a #8 rather than a #11 for this particular photograph, I thought it  would be nice to see what those specific filters looked like in C1.

But it would seem I am the only person the world interested in this.

I was told on the C1 forum that you could directly translate the B/W sliders from PS to C1, and as PS has Red, Yellow etc Presets, I tried to find out of these were based on the equivalent Wratten filters, but I couldn't find that out either.

I did however, use the slider values  from PS in C1 (with a suitable adjustment as the scaling is different) and the filter effects are very similar in both programs when you do this.

But the C1 presets I bought (see my OP) which claim to emulate the wratten filters give very different results from the PS presets.

So I still have no idea whether the filter presets in PS, that I can emulate in C1, simulate the wratten filters or not.

So I continued searching (over several days) for information on the PS presets, but that led me nowhere, and eventually I lost the will to live and wished I had ignored my idle thought.

I have now given up on the idea :-(

But, thanks for responding.

Cheers,

Graham
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N80

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Re: simulating B/W filters in C1
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 04:59:09 PM »

Thanks, as it so happens I perfectly happy working with B/W in C1.

Me too. Using both the B&W panel and the Color Editor panel I can do pretty much anything I want to do and do it precisely.

Quote
But the C1 presets I bought (see my OP) which claim to emulate the wratten filters give very different results from the PS presets.

I think that is to be expected. While individual actual Wratten filters are probably fairly standardized, their effect on different types of films would be different so to have a digital "Red 25" is going to be an approximation at best and unlikely to translate across platforms.

Quote
eventually I lost the will to live

I can see how not having standardized digital emulation of analog color filters takes the joy out of life ( ::) ) we simply have to take heart that we have so much more control in the digital realm than the analog!

Edit: But don't give up! It would be almost effortless to experiment a bit and establish your own presets that either emulated what you had in PS or, better yet, what your expectation for any given filter might be.
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George

"What is truth?" Pontius  Pilate

myotis

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Re: simulating B/W filters in C1
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 05:46:35 PM »

I can see how not having standardized digital emulation of analog color filters takes the joy out of life ( ::) ) we simply have to take heart that we have so much more control in the digital realm than the analog!

Edit: But don't give up! It would be almost effortless to experiment a bit and establish your own presets that either emulated what you had in PS or, better yet, what your expectation for any given filter might be.

I've only given up on the search for Wratten filter simulations, I was never planning to directly  use them, but just keen to see what they would look like. But I agree that as different emulsions had slightly different colour sensitivities. 

The flexibility of B/W in digital is tremendous, and I am really enjoying it. The whole Wratten filter thing was, as I said, just an idle thought that I ended up spending far more time on than I had intended or it deserved.

Cheers,

Graham
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