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Author Topic: Projector issue  (Read 1228 times)

drmike

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Projector issue
« on: August 15, 2017, 03:06:27 AM »

I hope this is the right place to ask.

Anyone ever had a projector where some (but not all) near blown highlights had a yellow tinge in mono images?

If we adjust the yellow within the projector settings then the highlights are OK but the image tends to sepia overall.

Many thanks

Mike
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 04:55:19 AM »

Is the lamp new?  If it's old, it can tend to yellow as it becomes less bright (and you might not notice the decrease in brightness over time).

Is the screen clean and white (really white - check it against something that's really white)?

Do you have any other illumination or reflections that could be showing on the screen?
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Phil Brown

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 10:03:35 AM »

Try a different ICC profile assigned to be used through the projector. IF that doesn't help, it's not a color management issue.
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Andrew Rodney
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drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 02:40:31 PM »

Apologies for late reply.

Not a new bulb but the yellow highlights can appear anywhere and doesn't affect all the highlights. I did begin to wonder if it was an optical illusion like those tricks where you misidentify adjacent colours.

We tried different profiles and it had an effect but not a good one. However the calibration tool supplier says the room must be totally dark and it wasn't when we calibrated and applied the profile. Would it matter that we have to use 'extended desktop'?

We have a lot more work to do I fear!

Thank you for your help.

Mike
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drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 03:23:12 PM »

Can I display my complete ignorance on the relationship between the settings made within the projector via its own on screen menu for colour balance etc and the profile that gets loaded.

My assumption has been that the profile relates to what is sent to the projector and the projector settings will then be applied on top of that to create the projected image.

Therefore, I would assume that we should have all projector settings at 'default' before (and after) calibration and that is most certainly not the case. My colleagues thought the profile settings would replace those made within the projector via its on screen menus - I think they are being very optimistic.

(I also realise I posted this in the wrong forum - hey ho)

Mike
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 06:18:52 PM »

Make any settings in the projector you want/need and then calibrate it if it you (if you make the settings too extreme you probably won't be able to calibrate it).  Then, don't change the settings :-)

Using extended display...good question.  When you profile it (which should be done in a completely dark room, yes), your tool should identify both screens individually and let you calibrate them.  Unless you have a very old operating system, it shouldn't be a problem loading both profiles but you may want to ensure the projector is on before you boot so it's detected at startup.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 02:23:07 PM »

Can I ask for more help in this matter which has progressed a bit.

We tried creating a profile using Spyder 5 and it was worse than when it was uncalibrated.

Using the projector with the simple JPEG  viewer built in to windows 7 we simply cannot achieve a clean white with calibration off or on.

Then we noticed the projected image suffered chromatic aberration on hard edges which has to be an optical issue - true?

Then one of the team noticed that if you looked into the lens an inner element was fogged and you could see a bright projected rectangle if you follow. We all agreed that would reduce contrast but would probably not cause the CA - true?

Could it cause the distinct yellow cast we get in highlights?

I fear the projector which 2,000 GBP three years ago is junk. I'm not sure why it won't calibrate but in the pull down list of projectors Canon did not appear.

Any thoughts?

We are talking to Spyder people for tech support.

Mike
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 06:45:00 PM »

Which projector is it?  It does sound like you should be looking at having the projector checked by a tech.
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Phil Brown

digitaldog

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 06:46:24 PM »

Can I ask for more help in this matter which has progressed a bit.

We tried creating a profile using Spyder 5 and it was worse than when it was uncalibrated.
That's mainly because the Spyder is a POS! IF that's all you have for calibration, skip it; use the on board controls to adjust for pleasing color.
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Andrew Rodney
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drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 02:55:38 AM »

Well of course opinions differ over Spyder but we can't get rid of the yellow highlights using the projector controls.

I am tending to think we should replace the projector but we area a poor club and have only spent the money for this one three years ago :(

The projector is a Canon SX80 Mk2 projector.

I have no idea what decent projector costs these days. All it has to do is project a clear image for club competitions.
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 03:48:21 AM »

OK - that's an LCoS projector, so it's possibly that the mirror has an issue or could be dirty (given you've seen fogging among other things).  They can also lock and not give you the correct colours.

Honestly, I'd call Canon and find a tech and get them to assess it because if it's a hardware fault, you will be chasing your tail for weeks and not getting anywhere trying to resolve it.

Most clubs I know are using 3LCD projectors, but a few have LCoS and have no issues usually.  Pretty much none are using DLP these days.
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Phil Brown

drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 03:52:42 AM »

I have to say getting Canon involved sounds like sense given the fogging.
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digitaldog

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 09:01:39 AM »

Well of course opinions differ over Spyder but we can't get rid of the yellow highlights using the projector controls.



http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=103094.msg845726#msg845726
The higher the reported dE, the worse the unit preformed. So you'll see two Spyder's (newest models) were 9.9 and 7.2 which is pretty awful. The X-rite products were 1.4 and as low as 0.8!
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 09:03:28 AM »

  Pretty much none are using DLP these days.
Good as DLPs are piss-poor for color images unless you spend big bucks for those without white filter segments.
Check out actual examples here:
http://www.colorlightoutput.com
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Andrew Rodney
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 06:55:09 PM »

Good as DLPs are piss-poor for color images unless you spend big bucks for those without white filter segments.
Check out actual examples here:
http://www.colorlightoutput.com

Yup - they're not economically viable for camera clubs (even big ones), and there's really no need given 3LCD options.
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Phil Brown

drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2017, 02:35:34 AM »

My own conclusion now is that we must find a service centre and get a quote for a good wash and brush up as there is fogging in the lens and therefore probably the mirrors as well. This may mean the projector has to be replaced as the cost may be quite high.

I do appreciate your help and advice.

Mike
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Farmer

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2017, 05:06:49 AM »

Check the warranty, too.
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Phil Brown

drmike

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Re: Projector issue
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »

Well out of warranty. They stopped making it in 2016.
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