Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.  (Read 836 times)

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 946
    • Denis Mortell Photography

http://www.skyninecinema.com/canon-5d-native-iso-test/

Note, ISO 160 appears to be the best. A quick Google will confirm that quite a few others have come to the same conclusion.

But, note also how clean ISO 1250 is. Worth remembering.

D.
Logged

BartvanderWolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7302
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 09:28:18 AM »

http://www.skyninecinema.com/canon-5d-native-iso-test/

Note, ISO 160 appears to be the best. A quick Google will confirm that quite a few others have come to the same conclusion.

But, note also how clean ISO 1250 is. Worth remembering.

Hi,

But that's only true when underexposing the image. ISO 100 delivers a higher signal to noise ratio (lower relative noise), and higher dynamic range. That also differs with camera model, so what applies to the camera tested, may not apply to other cameras.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

bcooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1409
  • guest
    • working
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 05:06:05 PM »

That also differs with camera model, so what applies to the camera tested, may not apply to other cameras.

Cheers,
Bart

Not just camera model even cameras of the same model, close to same build date.  I've owned every 1ds camera made, 4 1d, almost always  two for a backup and except one time did they shoot the same.  I think it depends on the sensor issues, some need more in camera processing, some less. 

But charts, specs are just that charts and specifications.   Nothing tells you more than real world use.

When people talk about cameras, especially new camera reviews most of them rave about the quality, until they are in use for a year or so, then once the dust settles the real world user reviews get different. 

Check the used prices of a new camera after a year and look at where they drop.  1/2 usually, unless they are still viable then they hold up on price, because people are still using them.

The 5d2 is old, but still one of Canonís best dslr motion camera offerings.  Sure itís 8 bit, medium sized bitrate for a dslr, but it always surprises me.

This image is a screen grab shot in paris with the 5d mark II at 1080P, shot in Paris.



Time was short and we had two car mounts.  One large to hold the RED that takes a while to set up, one small that is perfect for a dslr that takes about 10 minutes to set up, including an hdmi out for viewing.

Itís funny, when I bought the 5d2 I spent about 5 grand on rails, supports, cages, pre amps, etc. and thought this is silly.  Iím gonna spent all my time messing with this camera so I went ahead and bought REDs.

Rarely used the 5d2, though when I do it always surprises me in a positive way.   

In fact Iíve gone through 4 sets of small cameras for a 5d2 replacement and without a doubt havenít found one. 

The last was the A7s Mark II and everyone raves about itís low light but for me anything past 800 getís messy.   Noise doesnít bother me as long as itís pretty noise, but blocky ragged noise is not good, so the 5d2 goes everywhere.

You know, people in the movie and film business are slow to change.  Sure there is new cameras coming out by the hour, but youíd be surprised on a movie set how much old equipment is used and by old I donít mean 2 years I mean 2 decades.

Iím not selling Canonís, that's not my role,  especially on this forum because in the intertalk world Canon doesnít get much love, though I was speaking to a dp that works with Canon and other camera makers and he works a lot.    Like my experience he said heís rarely on a set where some kind of Canon camera isnít used.

This is an interesting video on the making of ďFury RoadĒ a movie that was off and on 10 years in the works.   I know they tried all kinds of small cams from the olympus to well . . about everything for shots where they had to mount in small areas and finally settled on the 5d2 for the crash cam shots.

(click the play on vimeo button to watch)


The director George Miller wanted a one cam shoot and brought John Seale the great dp out of semi retirement to shoot it.  John resisted and they ended up with a many cam shoot.   Itís a long video and Iíve posted it before, but there is a lot of lessons to be learned, whether you shoot movies or personal projects, stills or motion.

Sometimes we overthink things, I know I do and itís easy to jump to the latest and greatest only to find what we have works. 

Lately Iíve had a maker selling 8k cameras offer me a great deal to replace my RED ones.   I was/am tempted until I think about it.    8k requires huge computing power, newer video cards and a lot of other stuff.   Then Iíll look at the footage I just shot with my R1ís and think why do I need 8k?   

Sometimes crew will look at my R1ís and say wow ďancient", until they see the footage. 

But ancient? Those cameras still shoot 4k, I own two red rockets can process in real time and heck they're paid for.   

Ancient is Tarantino using 50 year old 60mm panavisions for the hateful 8, which is an amazing cinematography experience with Robert Richardson the great dp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8mZFSlGEJ0



But with digital cinema cameras, I know Iím not alone in my thoughts because RED just announced they wonít support my R1 mx's or the Epic MX after September.  I guess that's motivation except I can buy 6 R1ís for the price of one 8k camera upgrades.

In fact the last software/firmware upgrade on the R1ís has given me one and a third full stops faster with less noise that I got when I bought them new.  So . . . moral of the story, use what works for you and test it in real world situations and unless a camera does something that really moves you forward, I don't worry about it. 

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:38:29 PM by bcooter »
Logged

UlfKrentz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 456
    • http://www.shoots.de
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 07:27:45 AM »

BC,
You still might want to take a look at the Epic-W, just sayingÖ but whatever works for you.

Cheers

Ulf

bcooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1409
  • guest
    • working
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 03:22:26 PM »

BC,
You still might want to take a look at the Epic-W, just sayingÖ but whatever works for you.

Cheers

Ulf

Ulf,

Red has agreed to let me set up a test.  I'm really not one for shooting a subject on grey or white with a color chart, so we have to plan out something that is more to what we are shooting now.  We do a lot of different things, from studio to location, inside out, low light, and full out lit sessions so a test is a lot of work and right now in August and the early part of Sept. I have three projects hovering around the same period.

Anyway, not looking to be personal, but I'm curious what is the style you are shooting with 8k, studio/location/both?  Are you debayering with the new rocket X and are you using the differing olpf filters over the sensor and what computer systems are you running?

I think I remember your coming from an Epic X.  Do you see any difference . . . do your clients?

Thanks,

BC

P.S.  In regards systems my 4 5,1's two with large graphic cards and two with the original rocket cards all are on their last legs.

I have the new iMacs that crunch through 4 k pretty well, either in resolve or cinex, but it's time to upgrade, especailly if I move to 8k.   As you know, this stuff is a money suck and we try to be careful, especially when your bidding against people that are running a 8 grand Sony and want a base edit three days after shooting.

Logged

UlfKrentz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 456
    • http://www.shoots.de
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2017, 09:08:04 AM »

BC,

8K for video is kind of overkill but it results in an unbelievable Full HD and great 4K output. For the first time Iīd say you can pull stills for any demands, too. For post work, weīre on a 5.1 also (with a cubix, though) and R3Ds are easy to edit native. The 8K sensor is a bit smaller in physical size which plays well together with our primarily used set of lenses that are originally designed for S35.

In brief Helium is what I always desired from a sensor, of course you should test for yourself but Iīm pretty sure it will integrate into your workflow.

Cheers
Ulf

Edit: If it is a concern (you said Cinex / RedRocket), the new bodies also shoot ProRes. Until end of September you can trade any MX Camera (including the R1) for 10K.
Did you see Mark Toiaīs clip?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 01:56:05 PM by UlfKrentz »
Logged

bcooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1409
  • guest
    • working
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2017, 05:39:36 PM »

BC,

8K for video is kind of overkill but it results in an unbelievable Full HD and great 4K output. For the first time Iīd say you can pull stills for any demands, too. For post work, weīre on a 5.1 also (with a cubix, though) and R3Ds are easy to edit native. The 8K sensor is a bit smaller in physical size which plays well together with our primarily used set of lenses that are originally designed for S35.

In brief Helium is what I always desired from a sensor, of course you should test for yourself but Iīm pretty sure it will integrate into your workflow.

Cheers
Ulf

Edit: If it is a concern (you said Cinex / RedRocket), the new bodies also shoot ProRes. Until end of September you can trade any MX Camera (including the R1) for 10K.


Ulf,

The moment I read your reply RED called trying to set an appointment. 

Yes I've seen Mark's video, it's interesting,

And yes my R1'a are probably close to end of life, though I hate thinking that way, because though I'm probably going to jinx myself, but I've only had one file out of thousands that had an issue and I've used those cameras in some hot, humid, conditions like Bangkok where we ran two for hours at a time.   



I'll set the test with RED and let you know and btw:  your reel is wonderful.   Good work.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 02:38:49 AM by bcooter »
Logged

UlfKrentz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 456
    • http://www.shoots.de
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2017, 06:49:27 PM »

Thank you, BC. Means a lot from you. Cheers!

bcooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1409
  • guest
    • working
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 02:40:29 AM »

Thank you, BC. Means a lot from you. Cheers!

Thank You.  Man you got good. 

Keep Rollin'

IMO

BC
Logged

HywelPhillips

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 04:45:41 PM »

Been doing a few landscape photo art shows recently. Lots of people ask me what camera they should buy. I usually say "a second hand 5D Mark II and spend your money on lenses", unless they are really wanting 4K video or a lighter-weight package, in which case I say "a second hand Panasonic GH4 and spend your money on lenses".

Totally with you on the early REDs too, BC. My RED Scarlet MX paid for itself twice over in the first year and continues to shoot beautiful footage. I'm not letting go of it and as I deliver on the web shooting 4K for 1080p delivery is the sweet spot for me.

Cheers, Hywel




Logged

bcooter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1409
  • guest
    • working
Re: An interesting analysis of noise at various ISO on Canon 5D.
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »

Been doing a few landscape photo art shows recently. Lots of people ask me what camera they should buy. I usually say "a second hand 5D Mark II and spend your money on lenses", unless they are really wanting 4K video or a lighter-weight package, in which case I say "a second hand Panasonic GH4 and spend your money on lenses".

Totally with you on the early REDs too, BC. My RED Scarlet MX paid for itself twice over in the first year and continues to shoot beautiful footage. I'm not letting go of it and as I deliver on the web shooting 4K for 1080p delivery is the sweet spot for me.

Cheers, Hywel

I love that RED changed the world of movie cameras, though wasn't wild about their original buying strategy.   Now they are offering a good deal for one of my RED ones which is fine, except I don't need 8k right now and if I do I'll probably rent rather than buy, or might change my mind.

What I don't like is the stopping the servicing of MX cameras.  Man there are people shooting 50 year old panaflexes in film, 20 year old Arri's and why throw away something, drop another 20 grand unless you need to.   What was the moto Obsolescence Is Obsolete.

Not to b___h but the electronic business model drives me nuts.

Anyway I think RED as a serious movie camera  company is making a mistake with this.    I like the discount, but nobody likes being forced into it, regardless of the costs.

A Far as file size, Arri's shoot 2.7 to 3.7 K so and I doubt seriously if Skyfall was turned down on Netflix . . .

IMO

BC

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up