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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 26629 times)

wallpaperviking

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #460 on: September 13, 2017, 04:25:05 PM »

Hi Bernard,
                 Congrats on the new purchase! 

Am thinking of getting one myself and was hoping you may answer one question for me? 

I have used the D810 previously and love the fact that it has a 5:4 aspect ratio (presented as a semi opaque mask in the OVF).  I see that they have also included this in the D850, as well as a 1:1 it seems.

Just wondering if this option presents you with the cropped 5:4 Raw image (as the D810) did, or presents you with the full sensor capture (3:2) and provides "crop lines" in post processing software? 

This is what my Fuji GFX does and it has come in handy a few times where there is something just outside the frame that I did not originally "visualise".

Thanks so much in advance, much appreciated :)

P.S  Any comments on autofocus speed would also be appreciated but I am sure you will get to that anyway at some point.. Thanks again.

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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #461 on: September 13, 2017, 06:17:44 PM »

The other area that is quite clear is the magenta color you tend to see in almost all Sony CMOS chips when pushed up to 5000 and above.  The 6 stop push from 64 on the D850 does not show it, where as same push on the D810 or GFX Fuji both show it. 

Not sure if this is due to in camera jpg processing (as I am not sure if Dpreview is using in camera conversion or raw/ACR, or Nikon software).  But in the samples the D850 does not get red when pushed.

I have a feeling most magenta or green casts produced when strongly pushing the shadows are RAW development related, i.e. software. The black point substraction has to be very accurate since at such low levels data linearity is very sensitive to this parameter.

If the black offset substracted is lower than ideal you get magenta cast and contrast loss (washed image). If it is higher you get green cast and fake contrast gain because of black clipping:



Using the right value:



Those were Canon 6D II ISO100 samples when lifting the shadows BTW.

Regards


Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:07:52 AM by Guillermo Luijk »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #462 on: September 14, 2017, 11:21:41 PM »

On nikon and Sony's sensor relationship.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-sensor-battles-continue.html

As usual, Thom is spot on, informed and objective.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #463 on: September 15, 2017, 02:54:29 AM »

On nikon and Sony's sensor relationship.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-sensor-battles-continue.html

As usual, Thom is spot on, informed and objective.

Cheers,
Bernard


Well, I read the the article and i have read some days ago the interview DPReview published about Sony sensor manufacturing... and I have to say, Thom is not objective, he disregards DPReview view, the ones that were talking directly with the Sony executives because it does not fit his view...

He is also implying that Nikon will bring dual pixel AF to Sony because Nikon has patents about it, but he choose to ignore several patents Sony already have in the market about that topic...
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-patented-dual-pixel-sensor-similar-canon-version/

He is also in this believe that male a full frame sensor is more difficult than making a mobile phone one, the only difference it is that the yield rate is lower, so the sensors are more expensive, the manufacturing lines, are exactly the same ones for both sensors, they just cut in smaller pieces the wafers...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/09/05/sony-kumamoto-sensor-factory-tour-a-rare-glimpse




http://dgpfotografia.com

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #464 on: September 15, 2017, 03:18:03 AM »

Well, I read the the article and i have read some days ago the interview DPReview published about Sony sensor manufacturing... and I have to say, Thom is not objective, he disregards DPReview view, the ones that were talking directly with the Sony executives because it does not fit his view...

If you read the article of Thom, it is clear that DPreview was NOT told by Sony that the non usage of the a7RII sensor in another camera was the result of the sensor not being available for other companies to purchase.

Frankly, only Pentax and Nikon could have used it and it didn't fit the developement schedule for Pentax and didn't fit the target specs of the D850 in terms of speed.

So there is no need to add a conspiracy theory to explain why nobody but Sony used that sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #465 on: September 15, 2017, 03:23:21 AM »

Ok, I forgot to mention before. This is a nice article about the evolution of on-sensor AF: http://techinsights.com/about-techinsights/overview/blog/survey-of-enabling-technologies-in-successful-consumer-digital-imaging-products/

If you read about dual-pixel AF (section D), you will see that Sony already manufacturer sensors like that for Samsung (they never released for their cameras, so maybe there is an agreement with Samsung).

The article also mentions Dual PDAF, they say it fixes part of the problems of Dual Pixel AF and typical Masked Phase Detect AF over sensor... but it does not enter in the details, in theory it is what the iPhone 7 sensor has, this article talks about how the Dual PDAF works (I believe), but I didn't understood it very well: http://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2015%20Workshop/2015%20Papers/Sessions/Session_1/1-04_Yokogawa_033.pdf

davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #466 on: September 15, 2017, 03:40:19 AM »

If you read the article of Thom, it is clear that DPreview was NOT told by Sony that the non usage of the a7RII sensor in another camera was the result of the sensor not being available for other companies to purchase.

Frankly, only Pentax and Nikon could have used it and it didn't fit the developement schedule for Pentax and didn't fit the target specs of the D850 in terms of speed.

So there is no need to add a conspiracy theory to explain why nobody but Sony used that sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard

Maybe, but the rest of Thom article is talking non-sense about Dual Pixel AF and the exclusivity that Nikon and Canon has about it... when it is not true... It is clear that Thom wants to leave Nikon on the top of sensor manufacturing... he just picks notes here and there for it... so, saying his article is objective... well...

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #467 on: September 15, 2017, 04:55:05 AM »

Maybe, but the rest of Thom article is talking non-sense about Dual Pixel AF and the exclusivity that Nikon and Canon has about it... when it is not true... It is clear that Thom wants to leave Nikon on the top of sensor manufacturing... he just picks notes here and there for it... so, saying his article is objective... well...

No intention to argue with you really, but you may want to re-read it.

He is just brainstorming about what Nikon may want to use as sensor sources moving forward and is only mentioning rumors about upcoming mirrorless acknowledging these are rumors.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #468 on: September 15, 2017, 05:11:39 AM »

No intention to argue with you really, but you may want to re-read it.

He is just brainstorming about what Nikon may want to use as sensor sources moving forward and is only mentioning rumors about upcoming mirrorless acknowledging these are rumors.

Cheers,
Bernard

I know that we are not going to agree... I read the article several times and I still think the article is not objective trying to imply Nikon has some advantage in mirrorless sensors with respect Sony.

I, for a long time, even if other members of this forum more Sony fanboys don't agree with me, think Sony is not holding its sensor technology to create an advantage with respect other manufacturers such as Fuji or Nikon...

But yes, seeing that we are not going to agree with Thom opinion, we can give stop here :)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #469 on: September 15, 2017, 06:03:22 AM »

But yes, seeing that we are not going to agree with Thom opinion, we can give stop here :)

Sounds good... this isn't a big deal and we'll see soon enough. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #470 on: September 15, 2017, 06:40:00 AM »

Sounds good... this isn't a big deal and we'll see soon enough. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Indeed :)

Bo_Dez

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #471 on: September 17, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »

What I'd really like and hope to see is a comparison of sensors formats.

That is a wide open portrait with a D850 and an 85mm Otus and a Hasselblad 100c with a wide open 100 2.2

It's with a comparison like that will test the differences of the sensor size, one that will show gradation of focus etc.

Are you able to oblige Bernard? Pretty pleeeease :)
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #472 on: September 17, 2017, 10:54:57 PM »

Unfortunately I won't be able to since I sold my Otus 85mm in favor of the Nikon 105mm f1.4... Not 100% as good at f1.4 but very very close and the hit rate with the D5/D850 AF is much higher even on static subjects.

But I could do the Otus 55mm f1.4 that is anyway a bit closer in terms of corresponding focal length I guess.

But there is no doubt that the Otus at f1.4 is better optically. I guess that the result will be real close in absolute terms wide open. The blad will show its value at f4 or f5.6.

If my daughter cooperates I may be able to try that soon.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #473 on: September 18, 2017, 07:50:50 AM »


D850 + 19mm f4 T/S

Cheers,
Bernard
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #474 on: September 18, 2017, 08:23:36 AM »

What do you think of the 850 so far?
Is the elecronic shutter working well to reduce vibrations?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #475 on: September 18, 2017, 10:23:50 AM »

What do you think of the 850 so far?
Is the elecronic shutter working well to reduce vibrations?

well... for some strange reason my release cable doesn't work consistently with the D850 so I am having a hard time providing a clear answer to this question... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #476 on: September 18, 2017, 11:31:07 AM »

well... for some strange reason my release cable doesn't work consistently with the D850 so I am having a hard time providing a clear answer to this question... ;)


Is the D850 connector the same as the D810? Does the D850 have self-timer and and shutter delay modes like the D810 that you could use to finesse this?

Jim

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #477 on: September 18, 2017, 11:27:21 PM »

Got a notice today that B&H has shipped my D850. A very long wait for a new camera from when I first ordered the Hasselblad X1D in June (I believe) of 2016. And now for the moment of truth: will I like it?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #478 on: September 18, 2017, 11:28:49 PM »

Is the D850 connector the same as the D810? Does the D850 have self-timer and and shutter delay modes like the D810 that you could use to finesse this?

Hi Jim,

Yes, the connector is the same. I have not yet looked into the self-time aspect in detais, but I got the feeling the capability was the same as that of the D810.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #479 on: September 19, 2017, 03:38:17 PM »

Unfortunately I won't be able to since I sold my Otus 85mm in favor of the Nikon 105mm f1.4... Not 100% as good at f1.4 but very very close and the hit rate with the D5/D850 AF is much higher even on static subjects.

But I could do the Otus 55mm f1.4 that is anyway a bit closer in terms of corresponding focal length I guess.

But there is no doubt that the Otus at f1.4 is better optically. I guess that the result will be real close in absolute terms wide open. The blad will show its value at f4 or f5.6.

If my daughter cooperates I may be able to try that soon.

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks Bernard, that would be really amazing. You are a diamond.

What I'm trying to determine is more about image aesthetics between small and large sensors. Focus and tonal transitions etc.
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