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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 254863 times)

shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #440 on: September 10, 2017, 07:52:08 AM »

Everything is possible but these theoretical cameras have one major issue... they can't take pictures.

Cheers,
Bernard

And, in five years' time, your $50k lens collection won't have a body available that can focus them with the same speed and accuracy, and, as manual-focus, adapter-only lenses, will likely have minimal value and functionality.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #441 on: September 10, 2017, 08:31:57 AM »






D850 + Leica 180mm f2.8 APO

Cheers,
Bernard
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Paul2660

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #442 on: September 10, 2017, 10:15:18 AM »

Hi Bernard

Thanks for the report

Glad to see the white dot issue seems under control. Have tried any long exposure 30 second to 2 minutes with LEN off to see if they show any dots? 

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #443 on: September 10, 2017, 04:41:06 PM »

Hi Bernard!

Glad to see you have it allready!
How good is the silent/vibrationfree shutter?

Henrik
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Ray

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #444 on: September 10, 2017, 08:55:37 PM »

Congratulations, Bernard. It's exciting to get a new camera with significantly better features, isn't it!  ;)

I recall when I got my first full-frame DSLR, the Canon 5D. I was so excited I decided to visit Nepal again to do some trekking, for the first time in 40 years. During my first visit I had a Pentax Spotmatic; during the second visit a Canon 5D. What a difference!

However, to get things in perspective, I don't see much difference in basic image quality between the D850 and D810. From the comparison images I've seen so far, my impression is that the D850 has very marginally better resolution, and very marginally lower noise at high ISO. I was hoping that image quality would be significantly better at high ISO, but I've seen no evidence of this so far.

Any improvement is better than none. However, it's the other features which are the main attraction of the D850, such as higher frame rate, more accurate focusing (hopefully) and 4K video in particular (for me).

I've never bothered much with the HD video capability of my DSLRs, but 4K video capability could inspire me to begin using the video feature and start experimenting with time-lapse video. Eventually, I expect I'll buy a 4K OLED TV, when the really large screens become more affordable.
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #445 on: September 10, 2017, 11:27:02 PM »

Is the base ISO noise performance similar, or improved, once you turn all noise reduction off? Certainly the noise will be more fine-grained, which is always an improvement, but the SNR chart suggests a similar absolute amount of noise. I have no doubt the jpegs will be improved, due to better NR algorithms.

How does the AF compare to the D5 and D500?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #446 on: September 10, 2017, 11:48:16 PM »

Is the base ISO noise performance similar, or improved, once you turn all noise reduction off? Certainly the noise will be more fine-grained, which is always an improvement, but the SNR chart suggests a similar absolute amount of noise. I have no doubt the jpegs will be improved, due to better NR algorithms.

How does the AF compare to the D5 and D500?

I see no noise at ISO64 using the beta version of a raw developer I am not allowded to speak about (all noise reduction set to zero). I am sure there is some in the deep shadows but I have not faced an image this time around where I had to do an important amount of shadow lifting.

I used the camera to take photographs, not to perform any technical test.

Sorry, I have not yet mounted an AF lens on the D850 so I cannot comment about its AF performance relative to the D5 that I use also.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #447 on: September 10, 2017, 11:50:45 PM »

Hi Bernard!

Glad to see you have it allready!
How good is the silent/vibrationfree shutter?

Totally silent indeed. Seems to work well.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #448 on: September 11, 2017, 08:55:57 AM »




D850 + Leica 180mm f2.8 APO on pano stitch

Cheers,
Bernard
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muntanela

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #449 on: September 11, 2017, 07:57:13 PM »

But the real star is the Elmarit 180 apo, the D850 is only its humble servant.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #450 on: September 11, 2017, 09:18:56 PM »

But the real star is the Elmarit 180 apo, the D850 is only its humble servant.

Yep, best medium tele lens money can buy for distant subjects. As close as there is to the perfect lens.

Could easily take 100mp at f5.6 where these images were shot.

Besides it is pretty light weight and compact, really perfect for trekking.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #451 on: September 12, 2017, 03:33:33 AM »

D850 against other cameras in the market (pure sensor output quality at base ISO and ISO6400): http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d850/nikon-d850A.HTM#IQC-LP

Ray

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #452 on: September 12, 2017, 05:41:14 AM »

D850 against other cameras in the market (pure sensor output quality at base ISO and ISO6400): http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d850/nikon-d850A.HTM#IQC-LP

Thanks for the link, David. I've downloaded the full-rez images at ISO 6400.

However, I'm not sure the comparisons are valid. The exposures are different and possibly the ISO sensitivities are different.

The D850 shot is at 1/1000th sec at F8 using a 60mm lens. The D810 shot is with a 70 mm lens at F8 and 1/1250th sec exposure.
In the D850 shot, the circular 'proportional scale' at the top of the 100% crop is much whiter. One would expect the shadows to be better, as they are.

Also, if these are out-of-camera jpeg images, then the results are not relevant for those who shoot RAW.

Beware that the position of the shots has changed in the following attachments of 100% crops. The D850 in the 'raised shadows' image is on the left, whereas, in the other shot the D850 is on the right.

The shadows have been raised to the same degree for both images, moving the middle slider in 'Levels' to 3.5.
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Paul2660

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #453 on: September 12, 2017, 08:57:53 AM »

Dpreview has posted their comparison via their tool. 

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850-first-impressions-review/6

Take some time and run through the comparisons.  What appears to me is that the D810 and D850 are very close pretty much all the way across the tests.  Base ISO 64 pushed to 6 stops (test for ISO invariance) and then ISO 4000.  The D850 shows less red magenta color cast in the shadows in the push tests, but the 2 cameras are considerable closer than I expected. 

Base ISO 64 seems very close also between the two cameras.

Paul Caldwell
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Ray

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #454 on: September 13, 2017, 12:34:01 AM »

Dpreview has posted their comparison via their tool. 

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850-first-impressions-review/6

Take some time and run through the comparisons.  What appears to me is that the D810 and D850 are very close pretty much all the way across the tests.  Base ISO 64 pushed to 6 stops (test for ISO invariance) and then ISO 4000.  The D850 shows less red magenta color cast in the shadows in the push tests, but the 2 cameras are considerable closer than I expected. 

Base ISO 64 seems very close also between the two cameras.

Paul Caldwell

Thanks for the link, Peter. I've downloaded the latest ACR update and converted the D850 and D810 RAW images at ISO 6400, to compare.

I was hoping that the D850 would show an improvement at high ISO, but I see no improvement at ISO 6400. It's widely known that Canon DSLRs are greatly lacking in DR at base ISO, compared with Nikon. However, at high ISOs the Canon DSLRs are as good as or better than the equivalent Nikon cameras.
In fact, according to DXOMark, the DR of the Canon 5D MkIV is around 3/4ths of an EV better than the D810 at ISOs of 1600 and above.  0.75 EV, or even 2/3rds of an EV in DR, is a worthwhile improvement. I was hoping that the DR of the D850 would at least equal the DR of the 5D MkIV. Apparently it doesn't.

In the following 100% crops, the D850 on the left of each image, I've exaggerated the sharpening, without using noise reduction, in order to highlight any differences in noise and resolution. The same settings were used for each image of course.

The D850 shot has been downsized to the D810 size, because it's only sensible to compare equal size images. I see no significant difference in noise or resolution.  :(

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kers

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #455 on: September 13, 2017, 05:05:43 AM »

...
In the D850 shot, the circular 'proportional scale' at the top of the 100% crop is much whiter. ..

I have read they had to replace that scale for a new one because it turned yellow...
-
+ i do believe the d850 has better high iso-
what i see:
it is the first time colors hold up unto 128000 asa and it works better in combination with noise reduction.
But i need to know what it does in tungsten light for that is where i use these extreme asa's and somehow they never test that.
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Paul2660

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #456 on: September 13, 2017, 10:34:00 AM »

The differences are IMO small, but there.  The colors do seem a bit better at 6400 and above, not that I spend much time there, however it may lend itself to astrowork.

The other area that is quite clear is the magenta color you tend to see in almost all Sony CMOS chips when pushed up to 5000 and above.  The 6 stop push from 64 on the D850 does not show it, where as same push on the D810 or GFX Fuji both show it. 

Not sure if this is due to in camera jpg processing (as I am not sure if Dpreview is using in camera conversion or raw/ACR, or Nikon software).  But in the samples the D850 does not get red when pushed.

Other interesting thing is that Dpreview seems to feel that you are better not pushing ISO 64, for shadows, but instead moving to ISO 100 and watching for highlights.  Their claim is neither D810 or D850 are ISO invariant at base of 64 bot seem to approach it from 100 up.  Similar I guess to the D500.

But the other improvements Nikon has added make this a worthy upgrade from the D810, the tilting LCD alone for me. 

Paul Caldwell
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wallpaperviking

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #457 on: September 13, 2017, 04:25:05 PM »

Hi Bernard,
                 Congrats on the new purchase! 

Am thinking of getting one myself and was hoping you may answer one question for me? 

I have used the D810 previously and love the fact that it has a 5:4 aspect ratio (presented as a semi opaque mask in the OVF).  I see that they have also included this in the D850, as well as a 1:1 it seems.

Just wondering if this option presents you with the cropped 5:4 Raw image (as the D810) did, or presents you with the full sensor capture (3:2) and provides "crop lines" in post processing software? 

This is what my Fuji GFX does and it has come in handy a few times where there is something just outside the frame that I did not originally "visualise".

Thanks so much in advance, much appreciated :)

P.S  Any comments on autofocus speed would also be appreciated but I am sure you will get to that anyway at some point.. Thanks again.

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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #458 on: September 13, 2017, 06:17:44 PM »

The other area that is quite clear is the magenta color you tend to see in almost all Sony CMOS chips when pushed up to 5000 and above.  The 6 stop push from 64 on the D850 does not show it, where as same push on the D810 or GFX Fuji both show it. 

Not sure if this is due to in camera jpg processing (as I am not sure if Dpreview is using in camera conversion or raw/ACR, or Nikon software).  But in the samples the D850 does not get red when pushed.

I have a feeling most magenta or green casts produced when strongly pushing the shadows are RAW development related, i.e. software. The black point substraction has to be very accurate since at such low levels data linearity is very sensitive to this parameter.

If the black offset substracted is lower than ideal you get magenta cast and contrast loss (washed image). If it is higher you get green cast and fake contrast gain because of black clipping:



Using the right value:



Those were Canon 6D II ISO100 samples when lifting the shadows BTW.

Regards


Enviado desde mi ALE-L21 mediante Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:07:52 AM by Guillermo Luijk »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #459 on: September 14, 2017, 11:21:41 PM »

On nikon and Sony's sensor relationship.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-sensor-battles-continue.html

As usual, Thom is spot on, informed and objective.

Cheers,
Bernard
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