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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 254878 times)

davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #460 on: September 15, 2017, 02:54:29 AM »

On nikon and Sony's sensor relationship.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-sensor-battles-continue.html

As usual, Thom is spot on, informed and objective.

Cheers,
Bernard


Well, I read the the article and i have read some days ago the interview DPReview published about Sony sensor manufacturing... and I have to say, Thom is not objective, he disregards DPReview view, the ones that were talking directly with the Sony executives because it does not fit his view...

He is also implying that Nikon will bring dual pixel AF to Sony because Nikon has patents about it, but he choose to ignore several patents Sony already have in the market about that topic...
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-patented-dual-pixel-sensor-similar-canon-version/

He is also in this believe that male a full frame sensor is more difficult than making a mobile phone one, the only difference it is that the yield rate is lower, so the sensors are more expensive, the manufacturing lines, are exactly the same ones for both sensors, they just cut in smaller pieces the wafers...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/09/05/sony-kumamoto-sensor-factory-tour-a-rare-glimpse




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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #461 on: September 15, 2017, 03:18:03 AM »

Well, I read the the article and i have read some days ago the interview DPReview published about Sony sensor manufacturing... and I have to say, Thom is not objective, he disregards DPReview view, the ones that were talking directly with the Sony executives because it does not fit his view...

If you read the article of Thom, it is clear that DPreview was NOT told by Sony that the non usage of the a7RII sensor in another camera was the result of the sensor not being available for other companies to purchase.

Frankly, only Pentax and Nikon could have used it and it didn't fit the developement schedule for Pentax and didn't fit the target specs of the D850 in terms of speed.

So there is no need to add a conspiracy theory to explain why nobody but Sony used that sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #462 on: September 15, 2017, 03:23:21 AM »

Ok, I forgot to mention before. This is a nice article about the evolution of on-sensor AF: http://techinsights.com/about-techinsights/overview/blog/survey-of-enabling-technologies-in-successful-consumer-digital-imaging-products/

If you read about dual-pixel AF (section D), you will see that Sony already manufacturer sensors like that for Samsung (they never released for their cameras, so maybe there is an agreement with Samsung).

The article also mentions Dual PDAF, they say it fixes part of the problems of Dual Pixel AF and typical Masked Phase Detect AF over sensor... but it does not enter in the details, in theory it is what the iPhone 7 sensor has, this article talks about how the Dual PDAF works (I believe), but I didn't understood it very well: http://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2015%20Workshop/2015%20Papers/Sessions/Session_1/1-04_Yokogawa_033.pdf

davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #463 on: September 15, 2017, 03:40:19 AM »

If you read the article of Thom, it is clear that DPreview was NOT told by Sony that the non usage of the a7RII sensor in another camera was the result of the sensor not being available for other companies to purchase.

Frankly, only Pentax and Nikon could have used it and it didn't fit the developement schedule for Pentax and didn't fit the target specs of the D850 in terms of speed.

So there is no need to add a conspiracy theory to explain why nobody but Sony used that sensor.

Cheers,
Bernard

Maybe, but the rest of Thom article is talking non-sense about Dual Pixel AF and the exclusivity that Nikon and Canon has about it... when it is not true... It is clear that Thom wants to leave Nikon on the top of sensor manufacturing... he just picks notes here and there for it... so, saying his article is objective... well...

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #464 on: September 15, 2017, 04:55:05 AM »

Maybe, but the rest of Thom article is talking non-sense about Dual Pixel AF and the exclusivity that Nikon and Canon has about it... when it is not true... It is clear that Thom wants to leave Nikon on the top of sensor manufacturing... he just picks notes here and there for it... so, saying his article is objective... well...

No intention to argue with you really, but you may want to re-read it.

He is just brainstorming about what Nikon may want to use as sensor sources moving forward and is only mentioning rumors about upcoming mirrorless acknowledging these are rumors.

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #465 on: September 15, 2017, 05:11:39 AM »

No intention to argue with you really, but you may want to re-read it.

He is just brainstorming about what Nikon may want to use as sensor sources moving forward and is only mentioning rumors about upcoming mirrorless acknowledging these are rumors.

Cheers,
Bernard

I know that we are not going to agree... I read the article several times and I still think the article is not objective trying to imply Nikon has some advantage in mirrorless sensors with respect Sony.

I, for a long time, even if other members of this forum more Sony fanboys don't agree with me, think Sony is not holding its sensor technology to create an advantage with respect other manufacturers such as Fuji or Nikon...

But yes, seeing that we are not going to agree with Thom opinion, we can give stop here :)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #466 on: September 15, 2017, 06:03:22 AM »

But yes, seeing that we are not going to agree with Thom opinion, we can give stop here :)

Sounds good... this isn't a big deal and we'll see soon enough. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #467 on: September 15, 2017, 06:40:00 AM »

Sounds good... this isn't a big deal and we'll see soon enough. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Indeed :)

Bo_Dez

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #468 on: September 17, 2017, 08:21:53 PM »

What I'd really like and hope to see is a comparison of sensors formats.

That is a wide open portrait with a D850 and an 85mm Otus and a Hasselblad 100c with a wide open 100 2.2

It's with a comparison like that will test the differences of the sensor size, one that will show gradation of focus etc.

Are you able to oblige Bernard? Pretty pleeeease :)
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #469 on: September 17, 2017, 10:54:57 PM »

Unfortunately I won't be able to since I sold my Otus 85mm in favor of the Nikon 105mm f1.4... Not 100% as good at f1.4 but very very close and the hit rate with the D5/D850 AF is much higher even on static subjects.

But I could do the Otus 55mm f1.4 that is anyway a bit closer in terms of corresponding focal length I guess.

But there is no doubt that the Otus at f1.4 is better optically. I guess that the result will be real close in absolute terms wide open. The blad will show its value at f4 or f5.6.

If my daughter cooperates I may be able to try that soon.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #470 on: September 18, 2017, 07:50:50 AM »


D850 + 19mm f4 T/S

Cheers,
Bernard
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henrikfoto

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #471 on: September 18, 2017, 08:23:36 AM »

What do you think of the 850 so far?
Is the elecronic shutter working well to reduce vibrations?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #472 on: September 18, 2017, 10:23:50 AM »

What do you think of the 850 so far?
Is the elecronic shutter working well to reduce vibrations?

well... for some strange reason my release cable doesn't work consistently with the D850 so I am having a hard time providing a clear answer to this question... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #473 on: September 18, 2017, 11:31:07 AM »

well... for some strange reason my release cable doesn't work consistently with the D850 so I am having a hard time providing a clear answer to this question... ;)


Is the D850 connector the same as the D810? Does the D850 have self-timer and and shutter delay modes like the D810 that you could use to finesse this?

Jim

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #474 on: September 18, 2017, 11:27:21 PM »

Got a notice today that B&H has shipped my D850. A very long wait for a new camera from when I first ordered the Hasselblad X1D in June (I believe) of 2016. And now for the moment of truth: will I like it?
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Michael Erlewine
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #475 on: September 18, 2017, 11:28:49 PM »

Is the D850 connector the same as the D810? Does the D850 have self-timer and and shutter delay modes like the D810 that you could use to finesse this?

Hi Jim,

Yes, the connector is the same. I have not yet looked into the self-time aspect in detais, but I got the feeling the capability was the same as that of the D810.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #476 on: September 19, 2017, 03:38:17 PM »

Unfortunately I won't be able to since I sold my Otus 85mm in favor of the Nikon 105mm f1.4... Not 100% as good at f1.4 but very very close and the hit rate with the D5/D850 AF is much higher even on static subjects.

But I could do the Otus 55mm f1.4 that is anyway a bit closer in terms of corresponding focal length I guess.

But there is no doubt that the Otus at f1.4 is better optically. I guess that the result will be real close in absolute terms wide open. The blad will show its value at f4 or f5.6.

If my daughter cooperates I may be able to try that soon.

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks Bernard, that would be really amazing. You are a diamond.

What I'm trying to determine is more about image aesthetics between small and large sensors. Focus and tonal transitions etc.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #477 on: September 19, 2017, 07:41:37 PM »

Thanks Bernard, that would be really amazing. You are a diamond.

What I'm trying to determine is more about image aesthetics between small and large sensors. Focus and tonal transitions etc.

I'll be away 10 days, it looks like it may be difficult to complete this before I go, will try after I return.

By then the D850 should be supported by LR, which will make it a more fair comparison.

As much as I love the D850 files, I believe that the H6D-100c will be even better tone and color wise.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #478 on: September 20, 2017, 04:59:20 PM »

Itís been since about June of 2016 when I ordered the new Hasselblad X1D and waited. Then I ordered the Fuji GFX... and waited. I sent both of those back for various reasons along with a lot of lenses, etc.

Then I ordered the Nikon D850 and waited just a little.

I received my copy today and have only had a couple of hours of time in on it. There may be some deep-dark flaw, but I have not seen it yet. Some of our techsperts will have to check that out. My initial impressions, so far, are:

(1) The ISO 64 seems to be there.

(2) The extra Mpx are definitely worth it. Very much a difference that counts.

(3) The new LiveView screen is better than the D810 by a lot, but also perhaps a little more difficult to focus, not to see, but to adjust focus.

(4) The sharpness of older lenses like the photo here taken with the Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar push this lens to a higher state of us. The camera makes sharpness... sharper, IMO.

(5) The color on the LiveView screen looks different than the D810, but the end result (color-wise) is excellent. No complaints.

I donít use auto-focus and I still have not got the camera set up properly, but Iím working on it. So my initial impression is that this camera is as good or even better than I had hoped and at a HUGE savings in cost, not to mention that I have so many great lenses in the Nikon F-mount. If I have a single doubt, and I am not done checking this out, the highlights may clip... slightly more easily than the D810, but I will wait for gear guys to test this.

So far, so good.

Photo by the D850 and Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar lens.
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Michael Erlewine
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #479 on: September 21, 2017, 12:32:47 AM »

Nice image Michael, thanks for sharing and congatulations for your new tool.

It is always nice to see that cameras are being put to good use along their intended purpose away from the theoretical negative discussions about brand future. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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