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Author Topic: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development  (Read 262290 times)

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2017, 04:22:58 AM »

Indeed, the D810 sensor is a Sony part, but Nikon's toppings and sensor processing resulted in it having better behavior.

The D850 may use the Sony 42mp part, but I seriously doubt it.

Cheers,
Bernard

Why do you think that? Seems like a good sensor from Sony, according to A7RII reports. Unless Sony are already working on a new higher res sensor for their "R" series updates? Are they going to give Nikon the chance to use that before them?

JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2017, 08:11:04 AM »

Why do you think that? Seems like a good sensor from Sony, according to A7RII reports. Unless Sony are already working on a new higher res sensor for their "R" series updates? Are they going to give Nikon the chance to use that before them?

I don't believe Sony looks at their sensor sales in the same petty light that brand-cheering, internet posters do.

Sony fabbed the 36.3 mp sensor Nikon used 'before them' in the D800.
It wasn't until 1.7 years later that Sony first introduced a 36.4 mp sensor for the A7r.

If now, 5 years later, Nikon has designed another, bigger sensor for its purpose, and assuming they take the specifications to Sony, I am quite sure Sony will fab it for them.

Sony is a huge company that makes and sells a variety of sensors, to a variety of companies/customers, of which Nikon is but one.

JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2017, 08:13:16 AM »

illuminated buttons; tilted screen - no built in flash but hopefully a very nice prism instead.

Nikon showed special consideration for astro-photographers by creating the D810A.

I believe, based on the teaser ad itself, plus the illuminated buttons, the D850 intends to build on this special consideration.

Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2017, 08:37:11 AM »

what can we see :
illuminated buttons; tilted screen - no built in flash but hopefully a very nice prism instead.
The real surprise must be inside the body... otherwise i agree with Bernard that this way of marketing is not very useful.

Very soon after the pictures leaked, it was suggested the bump above the viewfinder dioptre adjustment is a switch for selecting a hybrid viewfinder.The two holes either side of the eye piece to sense the user looking through. This also on the back of a patent for such a set up. Basically it allows the mirror to lock up as normal but then adds a live view by way of a small EVF on one part of the prism. This would not only allow focus peaking and video control via the viewfinder but the camera may also have some form of electronic shutter, similar to the A9 or hopefully better...

All rumours. One rumour site is playing it down till confirmed...

The bump almost looks like a rubber port cover, so anybody's guess just now...
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2017, 08:43:45 AM »

Very different situation now.

The 36MP sensor used in the D800, D810, A7r and others is a Sony design (with small tweaks for each company). Back in 2012, Sony had a sensor, but no viable full-frame camera business (A-mount was dying even then). They also had a paying customer who could put these sensors into bodies, sell a lot of them and raise awareness of the Exmor (and Sony sensors in general) at the same time. It made sense to sell the sensor.

Sony wouldn't be ready to re-enter the full-frame camera business for almost two years. But the strategy worked. By the time the A7r was ready for launch, everyone knew about Exmor, everyone knew about Sony's sensor advantage and there was a large number of Canon non-action photographers - mostly ex-5D2 shooters - ready to move to a body with a better sensor, if they could just take their existing lenses with them. It sold like anything, despite the lack of native lenses available at the time - Nikon and the D800 had done the advertising for them, and the offer of a free Metabones adaptor with every A7 or A7r body sold only sweetened the deal and made it easier for frustrated Canon shooters to jump ship.

The situation now is different. Sony now has a major stake in the full-frame camera market, and every D850 sensor sold to Nikon is one less potential A9r or A7r3 sale. Ever wondered why no-one else is using the 42MP sensor, whereas several others have access to the (now second-line) 36MP sensor?

Therefore, Sony won't sell Nikon - or anyone else - their best sensor. They will sell their second-best sensor, so the 42MP sensor may make an appearance (since a next-generation version can't be far off). Also, if Nikon designs the sensor, Sony will make it for them - if they don't, then someone else will, and better to make something out of every Nikon body sold than nothing at all. But they won't sell them the best Sony design, and Nikon would be equally dumb to try to contract Sony to design it for them (there's no way Sony would design a sensor for Nikon to be better than their own top-of-the-line sensor - any advancements they made in designing that sensor would certainly make it into the Sony sensor too).

Nikon itself doesn't have a great track record with designing high-resolution, high-DR sensors. Their successes in that area have come courtesy of Toshiba (D7200) and Sony (D800/D810). And Sony now owns Toshiba's imaging division. So, Nikon would likely have to look for someone else to design the sensor. And, so far, no-one's managed to combine high resolution and high DR in the same 24x36mm package that Sony has.

Which leads to this - there is very little chance that the D850's sensor will match or surpass the A7r3's or A9r's sensor. It will be a good sensor, but it almost certainly won't beat the Sony. The Sony body will contain Sony's top-of-the-line sensor. The D850 won't. It may contain Sony's second-best sensor, or a Nikon-designed sensor made by Sony, but it won't contain Sony's best. The only way the D850 can have a better sensor is if they manage to find a third party to design one that beats Sony's best (in other words, doing basically what Sony did last time with the D800 sensor), which is a hard ask.
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JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2017, 08:49:48 AM »

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Therefore, Sony won't sell Nikon - or anyone else - their best sensor.  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Everything you wrote is based on this one sentence, which is not a fact, but 100% pure speculation on your part.

Check out LenScore's DX camera list ...

The Nikon D500 has the best DX sensor out of all of them, designed by Sony for Nikon only.

The same will be true for the D850, mark my words.

Eric Borgström

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2017, 09:01:56 AM »

The other question is what Thom Hogan has been doing the past 3 weeks.

Cheers,
Bernard

He has his yearly month off as he states in his blog. Back in August.
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2017, 09:14:49 AM »

Everything you wrote is based on this one sentence, which is not a fact, but 100% pure speculation on your part.

Check out LenScore's DX camera list ...

The Nikon D500 has the best DX sensor out of all of them, designed by Sony for Nikon only.

The same will be true for the D850, mark my words.

'Best DX sensor' isn't 'best sensor'.

Sony is barely bothering to compete in the APS-C format, apart from a few consumer-grade models with little dedicated lens support. Selling APS-C sensors to any potential buyer is really just part of the regular cashflow, not something with significant strategic implications. They would also sell their 100MP MF sensor, since Sony isn't competing in that field.

Full-frame wise, Sony will sell them anything, up to and including the 42MP A7r2 sensor (since that's reaching the end of its product cycle anyway). But they won't sell the one thing that gives their body the edge over the competition - their new top-of-the-line sensor. Without a sensor edge, the A9r/A7r3 would have a much more difficult time competing against the D850 and 5Ds2, and Sony would have a much more difficult time growing its market share, given the huge advantage in available lenses (not to mention individual lens collections) for Canon and Nikon mounts at the moment. This is a strategic consideration that trumps any short-term cash flow boost from a few sensor sales - particularly since, having overtaken Nikon as the second-biggest seller of interchangeable-lens cameras in the US market, they could make up for it in camera sales instead.

It would be just like Nikon or Canon manufacturing their best lenses in E-mount, under contract from Sony - not going to happen while they're competing for the same market.
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JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2017, 09:32:02 AM »

'Best DX sensor' isn't 'best sensor'.

Best FF DSLR sensor isn't the best overall sensor either ...



Full-frame wise, Sony will sell them anything, up to and including the 42MP A7r2 sensor (since that's reaching the end of its product cycle anyway). But they won't sell the one thing that gives their body the edge over the competition - their new top-of-the-line sensor. Without a sensor edge, the A9r/A7r3 would have a much more difficult time competing against the D850 and 5Ds2, and Sony would have a much more difficult time growing its market share, given the huge advantage in available lenses (not to mention individual lens collections) for Canon and Nikon mounts at the moment. This is a strategic consideration that trumps any short-term cash flow boost from a few sensor sales - particularly since, having overtaken Nikon as the second-biggest seller of interchangeable-lens cameras in the US market, they could make up for it in camera sales instead.

Again, 100% pure speculation on your part. Also, Sony is not #2 yet either.

Regarding sensor-performance, aside from ignoring the fact the brand new Nikon D500 has the best DX sensor made; you also ignore that Nikon-spec'ed FF sensors still have the best low ISO ability, and the best high ISO ability.

Nothing will change.



It would be just like Nikon or Canon manufacturing their best lenses in E-mount, under contract from Sony - not going to happen while they're competing for the same market.

No, it wouldn't be 'just like' this at all.

Canon doesn't sell its sensors to Apple, or anyone else, like Sony does. Canon manufactures sensors for Canon.

Your anti-Nikon posture makes you project this "wishful thinking" belief, so you can feel your brand-preference "is in a class by itself," but the fact is Nikon sensors are already best in class at the DX, low-end, and same at the high-end. The reason Sony doesn't take your posture is they are not that small-minded. The truth is, Sony is too big to be affected by the camera market. They have their own unique niche there, but they also have a much bigger role as a commercial supplier of sensors.

We can go back and forth on this forever, but Nikon-spec'ed sensors are already on top in most areas.

They are not going to come out with a D850 that doesn't do likewise.

My last post on the subject, but again, mark my words.

shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2017, 10:22:15 AM »

Best FF DSLR sensor isn't the best overall sensor either ...



Again, 100% pure speculation on your part. Also, Sony is not #2 yet either.

Regarding sensor-performance, aside from ignoring the fact the brand new Nikon D500 has the best DX sensor made; you also ignore that Nikon-spec'ed FF sensors still have the best low ISO ability, and the best high ISO ability.

Nothing will change.

We're talking about low-ISO, high-resolution sensors here. The D850 isn't a high-speed action camera, so how the D500/D5/A9/1Dx2 perform is completely irrelevant.

In any case, the D500 sensor (Nikon-designed) is worse

Nikon's D810 sensor is a Sony-designed, Sony-made sensor. Nikon has never designed or made a sensor that matches Exmor sensors at low ISO.

Quote
No, it wouldn't be 'just like' this at all.

Canon doesn't sell its sensors to Apple, or anyone else, like Sony does. Canon manufactures sensors for Canon.

Canon are looking to do just that: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Canon-wants-its-image-sensors-in-others-cars-robots

Naturally, Canon isn't going to sell its best sensor to Nikon or Sony, either.

Just because a company sells a type of product in general, or one particular product to one particular customer, doesn't mean it will sell everything they make to any buyer. Sony sold the 36MP sensor to Nikon because it made sense at the time - Sony had no other way to use the sensor. There's nothing forcing them to do the same next time - they'll only do it if it's to their advantage to do so. And it would be dumb to sell your trump card to any competitor, particularly your main rival. Or do you actually think that Pentax wouldn't have used the 42MP sensor, had they been able to get their hands on it?

Quote
Your anti-Nikon posture makes you project this "wishful thinking" belief, so you can feel your brand-preference "is in a class by itself,"

'Brand preference'? Don't have one. I like sharp lenses in front of a top-performing sensor. Back in 2007-2008, that meant Canon/Zeiss lenses in front of a 1Ds3 or 5D2. Currently, that means Canon/Sigma/Zeiss in front of Sony bodies. Would use Nikon lenses too (and did use a 14-24 on the 5D2 and A7r), but they barely work with adaptors. The D810 is nice, but can't take third-party lenses not specifically made for F-mount, which is a deal-breaker. Until the recent PC-E 19, Nikon didn't have a decent wide-angle tilt-shift. And that still doesn't replace the critical 24mm tilt-shift, and the PC-E 24 is crap. It also can't take the Canon 100-400L II, which is the best landscape telephoto lens out there (taking into account corner-to-corner sharpness, weight for dragging through the wilderness and the focal lenghts covered - the verdict is still out on the Sony 100-400 GM), and both the 80-400 and 200-500 are significantly less sharp in the corners.

Quote
but the fact is Nikon sensors are already best in class at the DX, low-end, and same at the high-end.

Only thing is, none of the best sensors are designed by Nikon.

The D7200 is designed and made by a Toshiba - now a Sony subsidiary.

The D5 does well as an action camera, but not because of its sensor, but because of its AF and lens selection. The 1Dx2 has a better all-round sensor unless you only ever shoot at the very highest ISO, while the A9 matches the D5 in AF capabilities and has a better sensor at all ISOs (better DR/noise at low ISO, equal at high ISO but still maintaining a resolution advantage) but lacks the lens selection.

The D810 sensor is a Sony design.

Quote
The reason Sony doesn't take your posture is they are not that small-minded. The truth is, Sony is too big to be affected by the camera market. They have their own unique niche there, but they also have a much bigger role as a commercial supplier of sensors.

Companies can do more than one thing, and they balance their priorities.

Sony is trying to knock Nikon off its perch in the camera market. They're hardly going to give them their best selling point, to be used against them - they're not dumb. The sensors they sell to go in D810 bodies are a drop in the ocean compared to the numbers they supply for lesser cameras, industry, consumer goods and other non-photographic applications. The sales won't be missed, and will be mostly made up for by the increased market share from having a better camera in the market (less D850 sensors sold to Nikon, but more A9r bodies, sensors included, sold to the public). And they may still make the sensor - they just won't design it for them.
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NancyP

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2017, 10:48:00 AM »

Three cheers for Michael's turtle photo. Herps make good subjects and are frequently overlooked (or avoided).
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2017, 10:54:50 AM »

Three cheers for Michael's turtle photo. Herps make good subjects and are frequently overlooked (or avoided).

They also set a certain minimum standard as AF test subjects...
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BJL

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2017, 10:57:23 AM »

They also set a certain minimum standard as AF test subjects...
Like my action photography strategy of photographing bicycle racers as they approach the top of a climb.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2017, 12:03:02 PM »

Like my action photography strategy of photographing bicycle racers as they approach the top of a climb.
And dancers when they're JUST on the point of succumbing to gravity :-)
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JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2017, 03:44:28 PM »

We're talking about low-ISO, high-resolution sensors here. The D850 isn't a high-speed action camera, so how the D500/D5/A9/1Dx2 perform is completely irrelevant.

Jeeze, I promised not to comment, but your pathological denial of reality demands a response.

Please don't speak of what 'we' are talking about, unless you're addressing the mouse in your pocket.

I will talk about what I please, thank you ;)

I was talking about Nikon's superior sensor quality at all levels. To refresh your memory:

The D810 is the best Base ISO DSLR on the market, even 3 years after its production, and even after 3 new Sony offerings in the same class.

The Nikon-designed D500 is the best APS-C sensor on the market; it is also the most fully-capable APS-S camera on the market. Hence its multiple awards.

The D5 is the best high ISO DSLR on the market.

Denial of these truths, and the attempt to bury several of them, just so you can keep writing, is only denial on your part, not rebuttal.



In any case, the D500 sensor (Nikon-designed) is worse

Another deliberate misrepresentation.

The truth is, the Nikon D500 has the best DX (APS-C) sensor available today. Better than any Sony offering; better than any Canon offering.

Better ergonomics, functionality, and 10x better AF function, too.



Nikon's D810 sensor is a Sony-designed, Sony-made sensor. Nikon has never designed or made a sensor that matches Exmor sensors at low ISO.

What difference does it make?

Nikon's handling of the Sony sensor (in the D810) has achieved better Base ISO results than ... not one ... not two ... but three subsequent Sony sensors made in the wake of the D800/D810. Nikon can simply handle the sensors better.



Canon are looking to do just that: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Canon-wants-its-image-sensors-in-others-cars-robots

Naturally, Canon isn't going to sell its best sensor to Nikon or Sony, either.

Well, given Canon's dismal sensor performance, I don't imagine to many prospective buyers flocking to them over Sony ....



Just because a company sells a type of product in general, or one particular product to one particular customer, doesn't mean it will sell everything they make to any buyer. Sony sold the 36MP sensor to Nikon because it made sense at the time - Sony had no other way to use the sensor. There's nothing forcing them to do the same next time - they'll only do it if it's to their advantage to do so. And it would be dumb to sell your trump card to any competitor, particularly your main rival. Or do you actually think that Pentax wouldn't have used the 42MP sensor, had they been able to get their hands on it?

This is simply burying your head in the sand, ignoring the reality that, 5 years (and 3 FF sensors later), Sony still doesn't produce the best base ISO results; the aged Nikon D810 does.



'Brand preference'? Don't have one. I like sharp lenses in front of a top-performing sensor. Back in 2007-2008, that meant Canon/Zeiss lenses in front of a 1Ds3 or 5D2. Currently, that means Canon/Sigma/Zeiss in front of Sony bodies. Would use Nikon lenses too (and did use a 14-24 on the 5D2 and A7r), but they barely work with adaptors. The D810 is nice, but can't take third-party lenses not specifically made for F-mount, which is a deal-breaker. Until the recent PC-E 19, Nikon didn't have a decent wide-angle tilt-shift. And that still doesn't replace the critical 24mm tilt-shift, and the PC-E 24 is crap. It also can't take the Canon 100-400L II, which is the best landscape telephoto lens out there (taking into account corner-to-corner sharpness, weight for dragging through the wilderness and the focal lenghts covered - the verdict is still out on the Sony 100-400 GM), and both the 80-400 and 200-500 are significantly less sharp in the corners.

Your posts belie this claim. You are a Canon fanboy converted to a Sony fanboy.

The Canon 100-400 is (at best) a convenient medium-high-quality lens, nothing more.

The Nikon D810 doesn't need 3rd party lenses: the Nikkor optics all eclipse most 3rd party (or Canon) option available.

The few exceptions are Otus lenses, which fit on the D810 just fine, and produce cleaner images on the D810 at base ISO than any Canon or Sony cameras with the same lens.



Only thing is, none of the best sensors are designed by Nikon.

The D4s sensor beats any Sony sensor, and was manufactured by Nikon.
The D500 sensor beats any competitor's sensor, and was spec'ed by Nikon.



The D5 does well as an action camera, but not because of its sensor, but because of its AF and lens selection. The 1Dx2 has a better all-round sensor unless you only ever shoot at the very highest ISO, while the A9 matches the D5 in AF capabilities and has a better sensor at all ISOs (better DR/noise at low ISO, equal at high ISO but still maintaining a resolution advantage) but lacks the lens selection.

More rubbish.

The A9 AF system is sub-par to the D5's.
The buffer, and ability to keep going, is a joke compared to the D5's.



The D810 sensor is a Sony design.

Nikon's removal of the AA filter, + 64 ISO expansion, makes it better than any Sony effort with their own sensors.



Companies can do more than one thing, and they balance their priorities.
Sony is trying to knock Nikon off its perch in the camera market. They're hardly going to give them their best selling point, to be used against them - they're not dumb. The sensors they sell to go in D810 bodies are a drop in the ocean compared to the numbers they supply for lesser cameras, industry, consumer goods and other non-photographic applications. The sales won't be missed, and will be mostly made up for by the increased market share from having a better camera in the market (less D850 sensors sold to Nikon, but more A9r bodies, sensors included, sold to the public). And they may still make the sensor - they just won't design it for them.

We go back to your baseless, "wishful thinking," prognostication.

The truth is, the sensors they sell to Nikon in all probability out-revenue the money they make selling their own inferior, limited cameras ... to zealots like you, with limited needs.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 04:23:47 PM by JKoerner007 »
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2017, 03:51:44 PM »


I consider it the 3rd most significant release in Nikon's digital history behind the D1 that pretty much defined what a pro DSLR is and the D3x that started the high DR revolution.

For me, Nikon's most significant digital camera was the D3.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2017, 03:57:20 PM »

For me, Nikon's most significant digital camera was the D3.

It's a valid candidate, I have nice memories of mine.

But to me it was a huge step for Nikon but a medium one for DSLRs overall, Canon had a good deal of what it offered already. Granted the D3 had better AF and better high iso image quality.

The D3x on the other hand was the first camera putting DSLRs in the same ballpark as MFDBs in terms of DR. I find that more significant overall, but that only reflects my belief that DR is very important.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

Jim Kasson

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2017, 04:06:52 PM »

It's a valid candidate, I have nice memories of mine.

But to me it was a huge step for Nikon but a medium one for DSLRs overall, Canon had a good deal of what it offered already. Granted the D3 had better AF and better high iso image quality.

The D3x on the other hand was the first camera putting DSLRs in the same ballpark as MFDBs in terms of DR. I find that more significant overall, but that only reflects my belief that DR is very important.

Good points. Using the Aptina terminology, the D3x was a breakthrough in intra-scene DR, while the D3 was a breakthrough in inter-scene DR.

Jim

hogloff

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2017, 06:10:52 PM »

Jeeze, I promised not to comment, but your pathological denial of reality demands a response.

Please don't speak of what 'we' are talking about, unless you're addressing the mouse in your pocket.

I will talk about what I please, thank you ;)

I was talking about Nikon's superior sensor quality at all levels. To refresh your memory:

The D810 is the best Base ISO DSLR on the market, even 3 years after its production, and even after 3 new Sony offerings in the same class.

The Nikon-designed D500 is the best APS-C sensor on the market; it is also the most fully-capable APS-S camera on the market. Hence its multiple awards.

The D5 is the best high ISO DSLR on the market.

Denial of these truths, and the attempt to bury several of them, just so you can keep writing, is only denial on your part, not rebuttal.



Another deliberate misrepresentation.

The truth is, the Nikon D500 has the best DX (APS-C) sensor available today. Better than any Sony offering; better than any Canon offering.

Better ergonomics, functionality, and 10x better AF function, too.



What difference does it make?

Nikon's handling of the Sony sensor (in the D810) has achieved better Base ISO results than ... not one ... not two ... but three subsequent Sony sensors made in the wake of the D800/D810. Nikon can simply handle the sensors better.



Well, given Canon's dismal sensor performance, I don't imagine to many prospective buyers flocking to them over Sony ....



This is simply burying your head in the sand, ignoring the reality that, 5 years (and 3 FF sensors later), Sony still doesn't produce the best base ISO results; the aged Nikon D810 does.



Your posts belie this claim. You are a Canon fanboy converted to a Sony fanboy.

The Canon 100-400 is (at best) a convenient medium-high-quality lens, nothing more.

The Nikon D810 doesn't need 3rd party lenses: the Nikkor optics all eclipse most 3rd party (or Canon) option available.

The few exceptions are Otus lenses, which fit on the D810 just fine, and produce cleaner images on the D810 at base ISO than any Canon or Sony cameras with the same lens.



The D4s sensor beats any Sony sensor, and was manufactured by Nikon.
The D500 sensor beats any competitor's sensor, and was spec'ed by Nikon.



More rubbish.

The A9 AF system is sub-par to the D5's.
The buffer, and ability to keep going, is a joke compared to the D5's.



Nikon's removal of the AA filter, + 64 ISO expansion, makes it better than any Sony effort with their own sensors.



We go back to your baseless, "wishful thinking," prognostication.

The truth is, the sensors they sell to Nikon in all probability out-revenue the money they make selling their own inferior, limited cameras ... to zealots like you, with limited needs.

John boy...something really got you steamed up and you come swinging with your Nikon pompoms. Let's just give this a rest and wait until the camera is released before a gasket gets blown.

Let's just say Nikon is number 1 at everything...but their market share has been dropping like a rock.
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JKoerner007

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Re: Nikon D850: Announcement of an Announcement of Development
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2017, 08:28:39 PM »

John boy...something really got you steamed up and you come swinging with your Nikon pompoms. Let's just give this a rest and wait until the camera is released before a gasket gets blown.

Pretty sure you wouldn't call me 'boy' in person, and pretty sure you'd do anything but 'swing' if we met also.

Agree on the last part. No gaskets blown, but enough time wasted.



Let's just say Nikon is number 1 at everything...but their market share has been dropping like a rock.

Everybody's market share has dropped like a rock (Canon's total sales is down 35% also).

I agree, Sony's market share is 'up' ... mostly because they were less than 2% a couple of years ago.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 08:46:28 PM by JKoerner007 »
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