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Author Topic: Framing small images. DIY?  (Read 2870 times)

danielc

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Framing small images. DIY?
« on: July 24, 2017, 02:11:05 am »

Hi guys,

I'm at the point with my business where I am setting up at a weekly local market and selling quite a lot of small landscape prints.  Quite a few of my customers requested these framed, so we have been doing what we can sourcing cheapish frames for the work. (market really won't bear expensive prices for framed prints)

So we are looking at sourcing bulk frames for the work, or maybe making our own. We are talking images around 16" X 8" or 16" X 5.33".

Do any of you guys have experience with this sort of framing or had this problem before?

I am thinking of just purchasing the equipment to make my own frames, but I'm not sure if it will work out in the long run with the amount of labour required per frame.

Regarding framing equipment, is the Logan type equipment what I should be looking at to do these? Somewhere between hobbyist level and full on workshop machinery, or should I look at the more expensive production type machinery straight up as I will get frustrated with the Logan stuff?

I would need to make roughly 8 frames a week at the moment, all of them smallish.

Cheers,
Dan

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 07:49:41 am »

Just reporting my experience.  I quite doing this several years ago because the labor part was just too much and not all that fun.  I settled on black Nielsen frames and two standard sizes.  the cost of the frames is quite modest but where you get bogged down is in the mat cutting.  You can get good quality mat board and acid free foam board from several suppliers.  The standard size I was buying was 32x40 so that I could get four 16x20 mats for the over lay.  Foam board also came in that size as well.  I was using a relatively high end Logan cutter.  It's still awkward to cut large mat board this way.  You really will have to buy a top line mat cutter to avoid wastage which will happen (it also will make your life a lot easier).  I settled on using acrylite rather than glass and bought pre-cut.  You can usually get a decent discount on bulk orders.

I was doing some craft fairs and never took framed things to them as the weight is significant.  I would frame to order. 

My suggestion is to sit down with a spread sheet and input all of your costs including equipment and figure out what the amortization will be and the price you will charge.  the other thing to look at is joining up with a local framer.  If you are only doing eight frames a week that might be too much trouble.  Talk to a framer and see if he/she might give you a % of referrals for framing.  I would opt for that choice if it works out; fewer headaches and potential better quality control.
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danielc

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 09:22:43 am »

Thanks for the reply Alan.

I'll take it all onboard.

We really need frames at the markets as most (small) frame buyers are either purchasing the framed image on the spot as a gift for someone, or as tourists who are only in the location for a day or two, so I really want a box of decent frames in my workshop that I can just pull one out and place one of my standard printed images into and have it be ready to go with no mucking around.
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dgberg

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 12:38:15 pm »

I realize metal is not for everyone but it is inexpensive.
All you need is a screwdriver to assemble if you buy precut chops.
Lots of choices too.

I would buy wood preassembled for the others.
I do my own with pro line equipment and it is still a pain.

DeanChriss

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 01:53:20 pm »

Hi guys,

I'm at the point with my business where I am setting up at a weekly local market and selling quite a lot of small landscape prints.  Quite a few of my customers requested these framed, so we have been doing what we can sourcing cheapish frames for the work. (market really won't bear expensive prices for framed prints)

So we are looking at sourcing bulk frames for the work, or maybe making our own. We are talking images around 16" X 8" or 16" X 5.33".

Do any of you guys have experience with this sort of framing or had this problem before?

I am thinking of just purchasing the equipment to make my own frames, but I'm not sure if it will work out in the long run with the amount of labour required per frame.

Regarding framing equipment, is the Logan type equipment what I should be looking at to do these? Somewhere between hobbyist level and full on workshop machinery, or should I look at the more expensive production type machinery straight up as I will get frustrated with the Logan stuff?

I would need to make roughly 8 frames a week at the moment, all of them smallish.

Cheers,
Dan

The Logan 850 "Platinum Edge" would work. It's a step above the other Logan models and it has production stops so that allow you to cut a bunch of the same size mat windows in fairly short order.

I'd second using metal "chops" that you can assemble with nothing more than a screw driver. Basic black goes with everything, but you can get any color in the rainbow plus various brushed metal finishes. Some profiles are more expensive than others, but all are less than wood. I'm not sure how cheap these need to be. The quality of Nielsen metal frames is quite good but you need to inspect them because they are sometimes damaged by carelessness in cutting. Some sellers are better than others in that regard. These frames are more costly than most flimsier preassembled frames, and you need to add the cost of glass or acrylic. Glass is cheaper and the surface is more durable, but the sizes you mention are not standard and can't be purchased that size in bulk. The last time I bought 11x14 inch glass in bulk (50 square feet) it was less than $1 per piece. Having the stuff custom cut isn't cost effective. I cut custom sizes myself and it's pretty easy, but I wouldn't want to do it in volume with the simple hand tools I use. Wall mounted glass cutters are expensive.
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drmike

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 03:01:19 pm »

Dare I mention that Ikea do some very inexpensive frames that look OK - possibly good for the market you are aiming for or maybe not. I met some guys in Italy who were just starting a gallery and selling some lovely photographs, probably a bit smaller than yours, and offered print, print mounted, print aperture mounted and print framed. When I asked where the frames were from they said Ikea so they could keep prices down for the very reasons you listed.

I have since used Ikea frames and they're good value.
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bill t.

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 03:14:52 pm »

I have used the ancestor to the Logan 860 and found it just barely acceptable for professional use.  The stable, well-captured, sliding puck pushes it just over the boundary line between cheaper and better matte cutters.  Most other Logan stuff is junk and will be abandoned soon after purchase.

For the small 2:1 and 3:1 ratios you mention, the only reasonable solution is to purchase dirt cheap imports in high volume.  There is simply no way you can custom build frames at that size and hope to make a profit, assuming you want to value your work at more than a fraction of minimum wage.

FWIW those 16" wide sizes are under the smallest realistic "impulse buy" or "carry away" sizes.  As you analyze materials usage, you may find there are larger possible sizes that can be built for the same price as smaller sizes, taking into account things like wastage.  Always build the biggest possible size for the cost of materials.  I have found 34" wide is a very attractive minimum size for panos that does not inhibit impulse buys due to size.

Yes, you can use metal sectional frames, but there is a curious problem with those things.  In high end galleries, sectional framing treatments can sometimes look impressive and even somewhat dapper.  However, in almost all other cases they manage to cast the artist as a low budget hacker.  Think 30 man show at Joe's Java.  It's hard to explain, but it's true.  The venues I classify as competent sales outlets don't like them, and in fact many won't accept framing treatment that use glazing, aka glass or plex coverings.
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danielc

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 08:15:54 am »

Thanks so much for the info guys.

I'm wanting to steer clear of the cheaper looking frame materials, and I figure that most of the cost will be in labour anyway.

I've received a quote back from a framer and they estimate around $60 AUD for a decent frame incl Matt for my 16x8 pictures which is still a little higher than I would like as I sell the image for $45 AUD on foam in a sleeve. We would like to sell these for under $100 AUD and I don't want to add the frames as an "at cost" option as there are extra ordering, labour, weight, transport and transport damage costs involved in the frames.

We are still exploring options.

Has anyone successfully framed with no Matt's? We have done a couple of cheapy frames by purchasing reasonable quality frames designed for 2 or 3 6x4's, pulled the existing Matt out and printed the picture to fit the frame, which has worked out reasonably well however we haven't been able to get a reliable supply of those frames.

If we can maybe eliminate the Matt portion of the frame not only could we sell a comparitively larger print, we would be able to drop about $15 per frame I think.
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Greg D

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 08:23:34 am »

Just a thought - Would it perhaps work for your situation to offer the prints mounted & matted (but unframed) in standard sizes for which your customers could buy a ready-made frame?  If only making a few standard sizes it would be pretty easy and inexpensive to crank out mats.  A matted print "presents" much better than a naked one but much cheaper than a (decently) framed one.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 08:37:49 am »

Just a thought - Would it perhaps work for your situation to offer the prints mounted & matted (but unframed) in standard sizes for which your customers could buy a ready-made frame?  If only making a few standard sizes it would be pretty easy and inexpensive to crank out mats.  A matted print "presents" much better than a naked one but much cheaper than a (decently) framed one.
When I was still doing craft shows, that's exactly what I had.  Matted prints in plastic sleeves that they could just drop in a frame (I did offer framing services for an extra charge but only had a couple of takers).
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GrahamBy

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 09:33:39 am »

Ikea :) 70x50cm frame is 9€
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 10:43:30 am »

Yes, you can use metal sectional frames, but there is a curious problem with those things.  In high end galleries, sectional framing treatments can sometimes look impressive and even somewhat dapper.  However, in almost all other cases they manage to cast the artist as a low budget hacker.  Think 30 man show at Joe's Java.  It's hard to explain, but it's true.  The venues I classify as competent sales outlets don't like them, and in fact many won't accept framing treatment that use glazing, aka glass or plex coverings.
I think this is an overstatement.  Most of the photography exhibits at the National Gallery of Art and the National Portrait Gallery here in Washington are displayed in aluminum frames.  This includes works of Ansel Adams, Robert Frank, Annie Liebowitz to cite some major exhibitions that I've seen.  They all had glass glazing.
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dgberg

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 10:50:53 am »

I almost feel bad pushing canvas so much but skip the mats and mount canvas prints to gatorboard or even foam board for those small sizes.
It looks fantastic is inexpensive and so easy to produce. They should sell too, if not more then matted paper prints.

GrahamBy

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 12:02:29 pm »

I think this is an overstatement.  Most of the photography exhibits at the National Gallery of Art and the National Portrait Gallery here in Washington are displayed in aluminum frames.  This includes works of Ansel Adams, Robert Frank, Annie Liebowitz to cite some major exhibitions that I've seen.  They all had glass glazing.

When the work is good enough, you stop worrying about the frame :)
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Greg D

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 01:08:46 pm »

Has anyone successfully framed with no Matt's? We have done a couple of cheapy frames by purchasing reasonable quality frames designed for 2 or 3 6x4's, pulled the existing Matt out and printed the picture to fit the frame, which has worked out reasonably well however we haven't been able to get a reliable supply of those frames.

If we can maybe eliminate the Matt portion of the frame not only could we sell a comparitively larger print, we would be able to drop about $15 per frame I think.

This will result in the print coming into contact with the glazing, which will cause problems down the road, if not right off the bat.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 01:15:06 pm »

This will result in the print coming into contact with the glazing, which will cause problems down the road, if not right off the bat.

Yes, you have to use a spacer if you don't use a mat. We recently did that on a photo and it looks nice.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 08:43:08 pm by Sharon VL »
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Chris Kern

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 05:54:50 pm »

you have to use a spacer if you don't use a mat. We recently did that on a photo and it looks nice.

I've been using these spacers for about six months now to frame photos without mats, and have found them to be quite satisfactory.  They are backed with an adhesive that is used to attach them (quite firmly) to the inside edges of the glazing.  You need to make sure the sides of the frame are wide enough to conceal the spacer.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 06:09:16 pm by Chris Kern »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2017, 08:54:09 pm »

I have since used Ikea frames and they're good value.

Absolutely. Weird sizes, though.  Beware.
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danielc

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Re: Framing small images. DIY?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2017, 11:52:54 pm »

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I ended up purchasing about 60 frames of a few sizes and materials from a factory who are making them to order. Got reasonable prices and pretty good quality.

I think next year I'll look at doing my own!
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