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Author Topic: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3  (Read 41836 times)

Guillermo Luijk

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Even if Canon deliberately set the 6D II at a lower step than the 5D IV, and aimed it at high ISO like the 6D was, I think perhaps they have gone too far for a general purpose FF body. It has less DR than any other smaller sensor camera up to M4/3!!!



Regards
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 12:34:47 PM by Guillermo Luijk »
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NancyP

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 12:06:37 PM »

Well, that's confusing!
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davidgp

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 12:09:48 PM »

Even if Canon deliberately set the 6D II at a lower step than the 5D IV, and aimed it at high ISO like the 6D I was, I think perhaps they have gone too far for a general purpose FF body. It has less DR than any other smaller sensor camera up to M4/3!!!



Regards

I saw it this morning, even the 80D does it better recovering shadows...

NancyP

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 12:19:42 PM »

My guess is that they didn't change the sensor design itself beyond the obvious increase in pixels. The "Photons to Photo" DR applet  shows that the 6D and the 6DII have identical curves, both clearly lesser than the 5D4 and 1DXII. Too bad. No chance that an owner of a 6D would bother to upgrade.
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Telecaster

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 05:22:58 PM »

My response at this point is "So what?!" Unless you're an obsessive all cameras are more than good enough now.

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 05:31:17 PM »

My response at this point is "So what?!" Unless you're an obsessive all cameras are more than good enough now.

When is "now"? Because this is basically the level of performance FF sensors offered 7-8 years ago. Were all cameras more than good enough then?

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

RobertJ

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 08:39:23 PM »

I had read about this several weeks ago, when a user at the FredMiranda forums discovered the DR behavior of the 6D2 from analyzing an early RAW file. 

All I can say is I'm not really surprised at the types of things that Canon is doing these days.  They love to give the middle finger to their users, because they sell so many damn cameras anyway, they really don't care.

Compared to the 6D2, the "old" Nikon D750 has image quality that Canon *might* be able to achieve in about 15 years... if they're lucky.

I say this because even the 5D4 still has a type of banding that's similar to the 5D3, even though people keep saying the 5D4 is a big leap ahead in terms of DR.  I strongly disagree.  I have the RAW files to prove it.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 03:40:05 AM »

I am a former Canon 6D user. As I replied in another thread, I never had a photo ruined due to its lower-compared-to-others DR. If one needs to boost the shadows 5 stops, or 3 stops, one is not exposing properly.

Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance.

No brand is without "fault", e.g. Nikon is recalling the D750 for the third time now.

kers

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 06:51:09 AM »

...
No brand is without "fault", e.g. Nikon is recalling the D750 for the third time now....

Are you suggesting they will recall the 6DII to put in a better sensor ;)
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Pieter Kers
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scyth

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 08:51:18 AM »

Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance.



so what did they do with sensor in 5DIV ? decided not to maintain such bias  ;D ?
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 10:19:16 AM »



so what did they do with sensor in 5DIV ? decided not to maintain such bias  ;D ?

The 5DIV has higher DR at lower ISO, compared to 6D/6DII. For 6D series, they kept the behaviour going from 6D > 6DII.

So, if you shoot Canon, and regularly need to lift shadows 5 stops, the 6D series is not the best choice.

scyth

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 10:43:41 AM »

For 6D series, they kept the behaviour going from 6D > 6DII.

certainly not, right wording here shall be totally devoid of any hints to some noble nuances - they either intentionally decided to cripple it _OR_ they decided to continue to utilize some existing manufacturing lines to save money on the cost of the sensor and that somehow did not allow them to improve the bottom line (readout related noise @ low gains)... so fans have to tell us BS like "Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance." to decorate the issue
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Rado

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 10:44:55 AM »

It gets even worse when you add 80D to that chart. It has about a stop more DR at ISO 100. Canon's own APSC body outperforming its full frame offering.
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JKoerner007

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 10:55:42 AM »

Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance.

No brand is without "fault", e.g. Nikon is recalling the D750 for the third time now.

Since you brought the venerated Nikon D750 into this Canon-mess, allow me to provide some perspective between the two:



  • Nikon D750 = $1,796.85
  • Canon 6D II = $1,999.95

Your statement, "Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance," is itself, ironically, what's biased.

A more accurate statement might be, "Canon decided to cripple the base ISO performance of its brand new entry ... while offering nothing out of the ordinary in high ISO performance."

hogloff

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 10:56:35 AM »

I am a former Canon 6D user. As I replied in another thread, I never had a photo ruined due to its lower-compared-to-others DR. If one needs to boost the shadows 5 stops, or 3 stops, one is not exposing properly.

This is utter BS. If a scene has more DR than what your camera can handle then you have a few choices to make:

1. You blow out the highlights to keep the shadows from going black.
2. You turn the shadows into a black holes while keeping the highlights from blowing out.
3. You take multiple exposures of the scene and blend in post.
4. You use a GND filter to control the dynamic range.

If you think properly exposing a low DR camera solves all the issues, then you are either ignorant on this issue or your standards of image quality is very low.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 11:05:19 AM »

I am a former Canon 6D user. As I replied in another thread, I never had a photo ruined due to its lower-compared-to-others DR. If one needs to boost the shadows 5 stops, or 3 stops, one is not exposing properly.

Baseline exposure correction can well be something between 0,5 and 1 stop. White balance can be 1 or more stops for the R/B channels. A simple vignetting correction can be more than 1 stop push in exposure.

This means by the time you face the 0.0EV slider in your RAW developer, exposure can have already been pushed by 3 stops. Add to that a bright/contrast curve and a moderately high contrast scene that needs its shadows to be lifted, and there you are. 5 stops is not that much and specially is not about incorrect exposure set by the user.

DR is not only about proactively pushing exposure.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:09:01 AM by Guillermo Luijk »
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JKoerner007

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 11:21:45 AM »

And now to compare Canon's new entry with its closest competitor, the Nikon D610:



  • Nikon D610 = $1,496.85
  • Canon 6D II = $1,999.95

$2,000 is a preposterous price point for this utter lemon.

It should be about $699, as there are $800-$1,000 cameras that out-perform it.

Telecaster

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 05:24:05 PM »

When is "now"? Because this is basically the level of performance FF sensors offered 7-8 years ago. Were all cameras more than good enough then?

Yeah, I'd say they were pretty much, an outlier or two excepted. Since then it's been more pixels for bigger prints and better specs for pedants. My opinion, not a declaration, so don't get too fussed about it. The sort of thing that happens when you use decade-plus-old cameras with 5080 year old lenses and find it all works together just fine.

-Dave-
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NancyP

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 09:26:45 PM »

I like the 6D. For most of what I do, it does the job with no fuss. I like having the superfine screen for manual focus, too. So I can't see the point of the 6D2. I have a few AIS Nikkor lenses kicking around, I use them on the Canon as well. Is it "the greatest camera"? No. But it works, and I have a set of lenses I like in Canon mount, and I should get around to buying the TSE 24mm II soon - there are some unique offerings - as can be said for the Nikon side. I just wish a 1DXII or better sensor would get put into a smaller body without a lot of other features. Weight is a real issue, all the more if I am backpacking. A 110 pound woman can't haul unlimited gear safely.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Canon 6D Mark II: less DR than any smaller sensor camera, even M4/3
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 06:56:54 AM »

certainly not, right wording here shall be totally devoid of any hints to some noble nuances - they either intentionally decided to cripple it _OR_ they decided to continue to utilize some existing manufacturing lines to save money on the cost of the sensor and that somehow did not allow them to improve the bottom line (readout related noise @ low gains)... so fans have to tell us BS like "Canon decided to maintain the bias in the 6D series towards high ISO performance." to decorate the issue

I am not a "fan" of anything, I was just relating my experience from when I was shooting the 6D. You do sound like a Nikon fan, and the BS is on you.
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