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Author Topic: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list  (Read 5724 times)

Chris Kern

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 04:46:24 PM »

Does anybody here (who is permitted to speak freely about it) know what kind of software development resources are available to maintain and enhance Lightroom?

My impression from some of the things Jeff Schewe has posted in the past is that there is a small dedicated Camera Raw staff, but are there also any dedicated LR application developers?

In my experience, mature, niche software products—and I assume that's how Adobe views Lightroom in the context of its Creative Suite—often need to compete for staff time with some or many other products.

This survey "to address concerns recently voiced by our community of customers around Lightroom performance" strikes me as rather odd in a couple of respects.  First, the wording of the announcement: "recently voiced?"  Really?  Second, the broad scope of the questionnaire, which might be summarized as "tell us everything that bothers you regarding Lightroom's performance, all the ways you use it, and the characteristics of your workload and computing environment."  Somehow, this doesn't sound to me like a well-considered attempt to collect the kind of information from customers that would be useful to software developers, especially members of a pool who were called in from time-to-time for their expertise in performing a specific task.

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I can't help wondering whether Adobe has finally figured out how to significantly enhance Lightroom's performance—perhaps primarily or even solely by improving the Camera Raw algorithms and code—and that this survey is essentially a marketing gimmick for the next major release: You told us you wanted Lightroom to be faster and we delivered!

john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 05:44:38 PM »

No-one who knows could say anything of significance, Chris. You know that, don't you?

I don't think you should give too much credence to the idea that "Adobe has finally figured out how to significantly enhance Lightroom's performance".

Performance isn't a simple thing - it's multi-faceted. One thing I have advocated since day 1 was the ability to browse embedded previews, just like Photo Mechanic. That's one thing they could do, resolving problems in the culling stage of typical workflows. But it would only open up that one bottleneck. Others potential enhancements are specific to other aspects, for example rendering a raw image after lots of dust spot healing. Some are specific to certain cameras (eg I can export JPEGs from DNGs 35% faster than I can export them from the Fuji raw files used to create the DNGs so there must be an opportunity there). More might come from eliminating unnecessary re-rendering of images, so for instance syncing photos to Mobile might also generate smart previews (see below). It's likely to be a whole range of improvements, not one big thing, and targeting a number of bottlenecks.

I'd also question your "finally". If you read Hogarty's post, you'll see that he refers to things they have already been doing to address performance. I call these "what have the Romans ever done for us?". One was the ability to use smart previews in place of the originals. I just wonder how many take advantage of that. Another is GPU acceleration of certain tasks which, at least in my case, has not delivered any obvious value and just seems to expose LR to more driver-related problems (AMD's recent driver update crashed LR on Windows). The trick is probably to join up enough of these fixes to make general progress impossible to ignore. So imagine that syncing to LrMobile also generated those smart previews to speed up adjustment, for example.

The most surprising thing to me is that Hogarty chose to go public. Of course, they might learn something from the whinefest. Or maybe a bit like Trump's Twitter strategy, for a few days no-one will be talking about anything else....

John
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 06:04:45 PM by john beardsworth »
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Simon Garrett

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 06:25:59 PM »

I call these "what have the Romans ever done for us?". One was the ability to use smart previews in place of the originals.

Well I never knew the Romans invented smart previews!

I agree with you about the other enhancements.  During the first 5 years of LR, we saw lots of improvement to basic raw processing.  In the 5 years since then we've seen more local editing and other new features, some more successful than others (remember the attempt to change the import dialog?)  For me, performance is OK on a fast machine, tediously slow on my old laptop. 

The fact that there's been no improvement in basic raw processing in 5 years does makes me wonder if the others have now overtaken LR.  Maybe it's time to look at Capture One again...
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rdonson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 09:56:38 PM »

The fact that there's been no improvement in basic raw processing in 5 years does makes me wonder if the others have now overtaken LR. 

I'm not so sure about that there's been no improvement in basic RAW processing.  By that I think you may mean demosaicing algorithm.  I can only say that I've seen improvements in demosaicing for my Fuji RAF files.  They don't seem quite up to what I get from Iridient yet but they're closing the gap.     
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 11:27:21 PM »

I just have one comment to all the inspired comments from lots of experienced users of "Photoshoppers"  and ACR/Lightroom.

While the latest version of Lightroom was in Beta format awaiting release I was involved in testing the features of the application and thought that hare is a product that would eventually replace Adobe Camera Raw. However this did not materialize, and I believe this was because the core of existing Photoshop / ACR users were just not ready to accept change. Now Adobe has moved to Photoshop CC with the (photographers package) which includes Adobe Camera Raw, and Photoshop Lightroom at no additional cost to the subscriber.
Adobe is now saddled with managing two applications that provide, file management and processing of RAW image file from digital cameras! Why have they not found a way to incorporate both in a single application.
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davidgp

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2017, 12:28:33 AM »

I just have one comment to all the inspired comments from lots of experienced users of "Photoshoppers"  and ACR/Lightroom.

While the latest version of Lightroom was in Beta format awaiting release I was involved in testing the features of the application and thought that hare is a product that would eventually replace Adobe Camera Raw. However this did not materialize, and I believe this was because the core of existing Photoshop / ACR users were just not ready to accept change. Now Adobe has moved to Photoshop CC with the (photographers package) which includes Adobe Camera Raw, and Photoshop Lightroom at no additional cost to the subscriber.
He Adobe is now saddled with managing two applications that provide, file management and processing of RAW image file from digital cameras! Why have they not found a way to incorporate both in a single application.

Not exactly... Lightroom and Camera RAW shared the same RAW processing pipeline under the hood. The difference it is in the GUI.

Of course, then Lightroom has more modules that give it its uniqueness with respect Camera RAW.

Rhossydd

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2017, 01:44:13 AM »

The fact that there's been no improvement in basic raw processing in 5 years does makes me wonder if the others have now overtaken LR.  Maybe it's time to look at Capture One again...
I don't see any significant difference between LR & CO. Any difference in results is mainly due to how the user drives the software. The defaults of either may suit an individual better, but once you know how to use both there'll be little difference. LR still leads with a more intuitive interface and workflow for most photographers.

For Bayer based sensors the differences between raw converters is pretty minimal, it's how they're bundled and presented that becomes important.
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Robert-Peter Westphal

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2017, 09:56:34 AM »

I'm totally locked into Lightroom for what I do, so I have to live with what I get  ;) I can live with the performance level as it is now, but would like improvements for sure. I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016 with a LG 5K external display. The files are from Nikon D810 (36MP) and Canon 5DSR (50MP). One of the annoying thing is the time it takes to render a picture completely sharp ready for editing in the develop module. The library module is pretty fast since I always generate 1:1 previews, so there is never a delay in zooming in pictures (before I have edited one, of course).

I find a few things annoying and lacking:

  • There are quite a number of global edit functions that cannot be done as local edits, e.g. HSL.
  • Presets are only absolute values. I cannot make a preset that changes a slider value by a delta value relative what the value already is. This really limits the value of presets.
  • When I do a HDR or Pano merge Lightroom does not keep track of the files that went into a merge.
  • I would like a really good focus stacking merge that avoids blur haloes
  • I can't see clipping in the library module. I have to look at the histogram in library and guess when there are clippings and then go to develop to see the actual clipping
  • I can't see the real clipping in Lightroom even in the develop module. I have to go to Rawdigger to see the real clipping. I always bracket my shots and choose the most exposed without clipping and this is overly complicated in some cases when not seeing the real clipping.

There are probably more that I do not have in my mind right now, since I normally don't list these since I have long given up on getting these anyway....

Hello,

I fully agree to all Hans mentioned above, but I would like to add one thing :

The local adjustments should give the option to paint 'sharpness'  using different settings like radius and details than the one chosen in the details panel.

Robert
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scyth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 10:38:16 AM »

  • I can't see the real clipping in Lightroom even in the develop module. I have to go to Rawdigger to see the real clipping. I always bracket my shots and choose the most exposed without clipping and this is overly complicated in some cases when not seeing the real clipping.

why not use FRV (fastrawviewer) before importing to LR ... cull there (FRV like RD shows clipping in raw channels in place) and it can even generate XMP with certain adjustments that LR will pickup ...
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2017, 11:02:57 AM »

why not use FRV (fastrawviewer) before importing to LR ... cull there (FRV like RD shows clipping in raw channels in place) and it can even generate XMP with certain adjustments that LR will pickup ...

I do that, and it works great. But it makes Lr seem even slower when I start using it.

scyth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2017, 12:32:15 PM »

But it makes Lr seem even slower when I start using it.

indeed, now poor Lr must also apply FRV corrections stored in .xmp sidecars ... what a sisyphean task  ;D
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2017, 01:24:44 PM »

indeed, now poor Lr must also apply FRV corrections stored in .xmp sidecars ... what a sisyphean task  ;D

I don't use the .xmp sidecars. I just use FRV for culling. I'm talking about psychology.

Jim

scyth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2017, 01:50:43 PM »

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Damon Lynch

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2017, 03:39:08 PM »

I have 24 physical cores

Dual socket or single socket? Broadwell or an earlier generation? I'm just curious. Last year a local business was selling a used HP dual socket workstation with both sockets populated with 14 core Xeons (which of Haswell or Ivy Bridge, I forget). I'm sure it cost them a pretty penny when new. They were asking for about $2,500. I didn't get it, and ended up going with a new 4 core 6700K because (1) it was cheaper and (2) for what I do most, faster.

As an aside, I find Autopano can gobble up lots and lots of RAM / swap space when assembling large panos. And as another aside, I tend to find its stitching more reliable than PTGui. How about you? And finally, I'm relieved an update to Autopano was finally released after the sale to GoPro, although I'm still worried GoPro doesn't care much for it and it therefore won't receive much investment. Bummer.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2017, 04:36:20 PM »

And finally, I'm relieved an update to Autopano was finally released after the sale to GoPro, although I'm still worried GoPro doesn't care much for it and it therefore won't receive much investment. Bummer.

Something's going on with GoPro for sure. No one answered the phone at their San Mateo California office several months ago so that I could find out how to return a GoPro I found in working condition at the bottom of my local river. I posted this on their Facebook page months ago and still haven't gotten a reply.

When I called their customer service number as their website instructed for such matters, I couldn't understand the CSR over his thick Pakistani accent talking to me from the Philippines. He also didn't speak as if he knew what I was talking about. I gave up and am now a proud owner of a GoPro. Just need a battery charger.
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Tim Lookingbill

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rdonson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2017, 04:20:25 PM »

Sorry, Tim.  Just meant to confirm/show that your complaint about support seems more or less universal with GoPro.
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Ron

EvanConway

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2017, 11:36:18 PM »

Not being able to drag curve points "off" the chart in order to delete them is very annoying.. why would they do away with that at this point??
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