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Author Topic: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list  (Read 5725 times)

davidgp

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Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« on: July 11, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »

Hi,

Looks like Adobe it is focusing into try to make Lightroom quicker: https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2017/07/on-lightroom-performance.html

Tom Hogarty wrote:

Quote
I would like to address concerns recently voiced by our community of customers around Lightroom performance, as improving performance is our current top priority. We have a history, starting with our first public beta, of working with our customers to address workflow and feature needs, and wed like to take that same approach regarding your performance concerns. We already understand many of the current pain points around GPU, import performance, certain editing tasks and review workflows and are investing heavily in improving those areas.  Over the past year weve added numerous enhancements to address your performance concerns but we understand we will have a lot of work to do to meet your expectations. 

They even have a survey about the topic: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LrDesktop_performance

Regards,

David

Paul2660

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 03:09:09 PM »

One thing they might focus on the GPU utilization and open CL as LR seems to not take much advantage of these compared to CC

Paul Caldwell
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 03:42:05 PM »

One thing they might focus on the GPU utilization and open CL as LR seems to not take much advantage of these compared to CC

Paul Caldwell

Lr doesn't even use multiple cores very well. I have 24 physical cores, and Lr can only use a handful of them. Matlab can use them all. So can AutoPano and PTGui.

Jim

Jeff

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 05:31:05 PM »

Does Adobe's request from Tom Hogarty imply that the next version ( LR 7 ) is not imminent but quite a long way away ?
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thebatman

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 07:04:26 PM »

I saw this and filled out the survey. My LR performance has been terrible. On a new-ish, 27" (NON-5k) iMac, with 24GB RAM and smart previews already built, I still typically have to wait 4-5 seconds to scroll pictures in Library module as the dreaded "Loading..." appears.

One the one hand, I'm glad they are finally acknowledging the issue.

On the other, I can't believe it has taken so long. There have been speed complaints for years. I remember when they were flipping to a subscription model, lots of people said the sky was falling but I said no, give them a chance. Seems like the joke is on me. Near as I can tell, they have moved 80% of the engineering onto other things and the 20% that are left have been pointed mostly to LR Mobile, adding camera support, and the occasional random feature (dehaze: moderately useful; the abandoned "easy import" debacle: useless).

I do love the application and hope they turn it around but I'm finally at the point I'll look at alternatives.
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ButchM

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 11:16:56 PM »

My only concern about this announcement is why did it take so long for this issue to become a 'priority'?

Anyone who has frequented any of the Adobe hosted or Lightroom related user forums over the past several years would observe that these poor performance issues have been around for a significant number of users for quite some time. Not weeks. Not months, But for several years.

While I personally have not experienced slowness to the extent it is detrimental to my workflow ... yet ... I do see where there is much room for improvement in this aspect of Lightroom functionality.

I can recall a time when Adobe took great pride in being on the leading edge of such matters. It seems that since we entered into the CC subscription model, the emphasis has changed from what it once was when revenues were earned solely upon the merit system.

I hope this move is sincere (I currently have no reason to think otherwise) I also hope that the accountants and executives up the chain of power don't overrule any potential avenue Hogarty and his team choose to use for correcting the issue.
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Simon Garrett

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 09:27:46 AM »

Another performance issue I'd like resolved is the slow speed of updates and improvements:

LR1: 1/2007
LR2: 7/2008 (18 months later)
LR3: 6/2010 (22 months)
LR4: 3/2012 (21 months)
LR5: 6/2013 (15 months)
LR6: 5/2015 (22 months)
Now: 27 months since LR6

Although there have been useful new features in LR5 and LR6/CC (and improved local editing), there have been no significant improvements in basic raw processing since "Process 2012" with LR4, five years ago.  We used to complain that Nikon Capture NX2 got no improvements in raw processing for years and years... 

The probably explanation is that Process 2012 is perfect, and no improvement in raw processing is possible. 
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kirkt

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 05:24:16 PM »

It will be interesting to see if Adobe actually do anything above and beyond kludging together piecemeal attempts to "fix" the myriad issues - they could instill a new bolus of confidence in their user base if they innovated with a completely new product.  Sort of like the thread Schewe started a while ago about "If Thomas designed a new Photoshop" or whatever it was called.

The market is practically saturated with all-in-one raw converter image processing applications, of various quality and price points, none of which require a subscription.  Adobe might consider getting out of its own way and starting fresh, with a team granted full creative freedom to innovate and a quality assurance program to make it work the first time instead of charging people to beta test its software, and folks who respond to the user base in a timely manner when the product does not work as intended.

kirk
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kers

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 07:39:16 PM »

...
The probably explanation is that Process 2012 is perfect, and no improvement in raw processing is possible....
...
The probably explanation is that Process 2012 is perfect good enough, and no improvement in raw processing is possible  needed since everybody is hooked on paying each month anyway...
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 07:51:13 PM »

Another performance issue I'd like resolved is the slow speed of updates and improvements:

LR1: 1/2007
LR2: 7/2008 (18 months later)
LR3: 6/2010 (22 months)
LR4: 3/2012 (21 months)
LR5: 6/2013 (15 months)
LR6: 5/2015 (22 months)
Now: 27 months since LR6

Although there have been useful new features in LR5 and LR6/CC (and improved local editing), there have been no significant improvements in basic raw processing since "Process 2012" with LR4, five years ago.  We used to complain that Nikon Capture NX2 got no improvements in raw processing for years and years... 

The probably explanation is that Process 2012 is perfect, and no improvement in raw processing is possible.

Or, when was the subscription model implemented?

It's also become pretty quite around Julieanne Kost's contributions to tutorials, save a few on Lightroom Mobile.

Cheers,
Bart
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Rhossydd

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 01:45:03 AM »

...
The probably explanation is that Process 2012 is perfect good enough, and no improvement in raw processing is possible  needed since everybody is hooked on paying each month anyway...
Regardless of purchase model, 2012 is good enough.
They should add requested features and improve performance before worrying about appeasing the pixel peepers that stare at conversion issues.
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rdonson

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 07:22:23 AM »

At least Tom Hogarty seems to think addressing our desktop needs with regards to performance is a serious issue.  Perhaps that means they'll pause a bit with assigning resources to mobile.  I do use Lr Mobile and it's handy but I really need Lr desktop at its best. 

I'll also only believe that Lr and ACR are top notch again when their demosaicing can rival Iridient Developer/X-Transformer with my Fuji RAF files. 
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Ron

ButchM

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 08:16:27 AM »

I do use Lr Mobile and it's handy but I really need Lr desktop at its best. 


Agreed. While I fully understand that resources are not unlimited, the desktop version should not suffer because they chose to pursue a mobile solution.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 09:23:34 AM »

I'm totally locked into Lightroom for what I do, so I have to live with what I get  ;) I can live with the performance level as it is now, but would like improvements for sure. I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016 with a LG 5K external display. The files are from Nikon D810 (36MP) and Canon 5DSR (50MP). One of the annoying thing is the time it takes to render a picture completely sharp ready for editing in the develop module. The library module is pretty fast since I always generate 1:1 previews, so there is never a delay in zooming in pictures (before I have edited one, of course).

I find a few things annoying and lacking:

  • There are quite a number of global edit functions that cannot be done as local edits, e.g. HSL.
  • Presets are only absolute values. I cannot make a preset that changes a slider value by a delta value relative what the value already is. This really limits the value of presets.
  • When I do a HDR or Pano merge Lightroom does not keep track of the files that went into a merge.
  • I would like a really good focus stacking merge that avoids blur haloes
  • I can't see clipping in the library module. I have to look at the histogram in library and guess when there are clippings and then go to develop to see the actual clipping
  • I can't see the real clipping in Lightroom even in the develop module. I have to go to Rawdigger to see the real clipping. I always bracket my shots and choose the most exposed without clipping and this is overly complicated in some cases when not seeing the real clipping.

There are probably more that I do not have in my mind right now, since I normally don't list these since I have long given up on getting these anyway....

MBehrens

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 11:48:34 AM »

  • Presets are only absolute values. I cannot make a preset that changes a slider value by a delta value relative what the value already is. This really limits the value of presets.

I agree, the stamping of static values is getting really old.
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jrsforums

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 12:03:59 PM »

I agree, the stamping of static values is getting really old.

It's not clear to the value of additive or substractive values.  Static values give one a starting point, which is then adjusted to taste.
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John

scyth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »

At least Tom Hogarty seems to think addressing our desktop needs with regards to performance is a serious issue. 

speaks volumes about how they do QA in house... it takes users to complain and they can't detect issues themselves ? are they not testing their software on data/hw that their uses have ?
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scyth

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 12:05:19 PM »

Regardless of purchase model, 2012 is good enough.
it is good enough also because of the purchase module - there is less pressure to innovate
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Simon Garrett

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 01:43:47 PM »

it is good enough also because of the purchase module - there is less pressure to innovate

Agreed.  Once you can persuade users to pay regularly just to get the same old same old, then no need to innovate.  Cashflow sorted, and you can sit back and relax, and watch the money coming in.  Of course, there are threats from competition, but corporates in that recurring-income situation are under enormous pressure to milk the revenue, and run the risk of not investing in developing the product until it's too late. 

I'm quite sure Tom Hogarty and others at the coal face are aware of the risks, but I wonder if those that set the R&D budgets are aware?
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ButchM

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Re: Adobe puts "speeding lightroom" in its top priority list
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 03:03:54 PM »

Agreed.  Once you can persuade users to pay regularly just to get the same old same old, then no need to innovate.  Cashflow sorted, and you can sit back and relax, and watch the money coming in.  Of course, there are threats from competition, but corporates in that recurring-income situation are under enormous pressure to milk the revenue, and run the risk of not investing in developing the product until it's too late. 

I'm quite sure Tom Hogarty and others at the coal face are aware of the risks, but I wonder if those that set the R&D budgets are aware?

Exactly ... but as long as Adobe has enough users in this situation:

I'm totally locked into Lightroom for what I do, so I have to live with what I get  ...

Then there really is no incentive to attack problems and push the envelope on development with as much enthusiasm as they once did when their revenue was gathered in a different manner.

Sure, $10 a month is nearly painless ... if enough end users truly consider CC a 'service' and not the purchase of a toolset, there is little we as users can do to pressure Adobe to be more diligent on such matters. From a workflow standpoint there are few options that are as efficient for a volume workflow.

I was concerned that complacency would eventually set in once Adobe went the CC route, I had hoped it wouldn't have arrived so quickly.
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