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Author Topic: Dear Epson  (Read 2113 times)

Sharon VL

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Dear Epson
« on: July 10, 2017, 02:17:48 PM »

I hate the front feed of heavy papers on the sc p800. It has destroyed quite a few sheets of hahnemuhle photo rag 308.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 02:21:42 PM »

Hi Sharon,

I'm not a huge fan of it either, but there is a workaround - have you tried back-feeding it? You do as follows: open the door where you would feed roll paper; release the FFA gray tray as you normally would for loading it; instead of feeding the paper through the front, feed it through the roll paper feed and pull it into alignment with the front ridge of the FFA tray as you normally would. Press Load, and away you go. Operation pretty much flawless and it doesn't damage the paper. Let us know how it works for you.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Sharon VL

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 02:48:54 PM »

Thanks, Mark! I'll try that.

Chris Kern

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 03:09:14 PM »

have you tried back-feeding it? You do as follows: open the door where you would feed roll paper; release the FFA gray tray as you normally would for loading it; instead of feeding the paper through the front, feed it through the roll paper feed and pull it into alignment with the front ridge of the FFA tray as you normally would.

Very ingenious trick!

Kevin Raber

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 03:52:56 PM »

Mark is right as he and both discovered.  I am not sure why Epson doesn't recommend the rear feed as the default way of printing.  Mark forgot to mention that after the paper feeds in you will need to close the Gray feed tray.  Also, once you push the load button, give it a few seconds for the printer to open the gate for the paper.  If you try to feed the paper in and you get resistance back the paper out and then try again. The paper should slide through real easy if everything is set right.  Frankly, I wish it was easier to fit heavier papers in the feed tray.  It would be nice to have the printer make aa number of prints without the loading hassle.
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BradSmith

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 05:26:21 PM »

I've had the same terrible experiences in loading fine art paper through the "as designed" front feed tray.  I've adopted Mark's method after growing to really dislike this Epson which replaced a 3800.  But I've found that it only feeds into the rear door a couple inches, then hits an obstacle because the paper is slightly arching upward. 

Here's what I do.  I then have to open the top door and look down into the mechanism where I can see the leading edge of the "stuck" paper.  Then I feed a fairly stiff piece of paper into the front fine art tray till until I see it reaches the front edge of the "stuck" piece I want to print on.  Here it will act as a "shim" to raise the fine art paper.    I then reach down into the printer and force the front fed shim piece BELOW the piece I want to print.  Then and only then can I continue to feed the print piece from the rear up, over the inserted "shim" sheet to the front of the fine art tray and then remove the piece of "shim" paper I inserted from the front.  Then I can "load" the paper and print it.   

What a ridiculous process to have to follow!   I think it is pretty sad that a huge player like Epson would produce a product that clearly has such a flaw in a very important aspect of its operation. If I were faced with having to replace the 3800 again (or this printer), I'd definitely buy the 17" Canon.   
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 05:39:35 PM »

I wonder why they just didn't keep the same paper feed mechanism as the 3800/3880.  Perhaps it was the way they had to adapt it for roll paper.  It it is this convoluted, I'm keeping my 3880 for a long, long time.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 05:45:37 PM »

Hi Brad,

Yes, the Canon is a piece of cake - no issues whatsoever feeding paper whether from the top tray or the rear heavy paper feed. BUT: you can't have a roll holder with the Canon, and you can't feed stiff material (think aluminium sheets, posterboard, etc.) through a Canon printer. So that's the trade-off. If you never need this kind of flexibility - i.e. only print on sheets, it's great.. no question about it.

Reverting to Epson, and this will also respond to Alan's question, in moving the design from the 3800 to the SC-P800, Epson was looking for a way to be able to give users the flexibility of the roll holder and the posterboard capability in a compact 17" desktop that doesn't have the bulk, weight and cost of an SC-P5000. So this new design emerged from the objective to provide for all those parameters. As well, they were trying to address complaints they had received about the reliability of feeding some fine art media into the 3800/3880. I can't say I'm thrilled with it either and sometimes wonder whether there wasn't another way, but just explaining how all this happened.

Now, the problem you are having using the rear feed is something I encountered once. The sheets were curly. So for those papers where the amount of curl is likely to defeat the roll feed entrance strategy, I found it sufficient to manually reverse curl the paper by gently bending the first few inches of the feed end backwards a few times (not allowing it to crease) and it was sufficient to allow the flow through, so that's what I do if I'm testing a curly kind of paper. This is much less onerous than the tedious procedure you describe. Have you tried that? If you have and it still didn't do the trick, well then you are into a process; but if you haven't give it whirl and see what happens.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

BradSmith

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 01:16:43 PM »

Hi Brad,
Now, the problem you are having using the rear feed is something I encountered once. The sheets were curly. So for those papers where the amount of curl is likely to defeat the roll feed entrance strategy, I found it sufficient to manually reverse curl the paper by gently bending the first few inches of the feed end backwards a few times (not allowing it to crease) and it was sufficient to allow the flow through, so that's what I do if I'm testing a curly kind of paper.

Mark,
I reverse curl all of my curly "fine art" paper before I print it, but the process I describe is still needed.  It is an obnoxious process to have to implement.
Brad
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 01:20:45 PM »

Sorry to hear that Brad; I wish I had other tricks up my sleeve, but I don't.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

unesco

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 03:29:49 AM »

Hi Sharon,

I'm not a huge fan of it either, but there is a workaround - have you tried back-feeding it? You do as follows: open the door where you would feed roll paper; release the FFA gray tray as you normally would for loading it; instead of feeding the paper through the front, feed it through the roll paper feed and pull it into alignment with the front ridge of the FFA tray as you normally would. Press Load, and away you go. Operation pretty much flawless and it doesn't damage the paper. Let us know how it works for you.
It works for bigger sheets, but not for A4, especially in my P800 case when the paper is loaded (from any side), it hits the back door guide (opened) and often does not go up to rear door (especially with stiff paper), but beneath it as for poster-board making significant signs at least at the back side of the sheet :-(
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 09:35:12 AM »

It works for bigger sheets, but not for A4, especially in my P800 case when the paper is loaded (from any side), it hits the back door guide (opened) and often does not go up to rear door (especially with stiff paper), but beneath it as for poster-board making significant signs at least at the back side of the sheet :-(

Yes, it can happen with particularly stiff paper. The way to avoid this is to watch carefully as the paper advances to that juncture toward the back door. If you see it getting stuck there, you have a moment or two to gently jiggle the back door forth and back and that will usually allow it to feed up as it should. Far from ideal, but I've found usually workable.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

unesco

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 04:40:18 PM »

Yes, it happens to me in case of most of >300 gsm papers including Hot Press, Ilford and Sihl cottons.
I do number of tricks, including yours mentioned. The most advanced when I get angry is... to use sheet feeder...
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 04:47:37 PM »

Sure, you can do that, but I have been advised that feeding heavy paper through the sheet feeder may eventually impair the mechanism.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Sharon VL

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 02:58:13 PM »

Mark, the feed thru the back worked perfectly, but look at this black and white print. Nozzle check is fine. Maybe I'm not meant to print on mat paper. 

Sharon VL

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 03:16:27 PM »

Never mind..it is a blocked matte black.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 05:11:14 PM »

OK Sharon, thanks for telling us - glad you got it under control.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

bns

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 02:39:18 PM »

I think I tamed the front heavy paper load problem of the Epson P-800.
Take a sheet of about 17 by 8 inches of left over photopaper (happened to be in my case Epson Premium Glossy). Can be any paper as long as it is reasonably stiff, but also bends easily.
Drop that sheet in the rear ‘tray’. See figures 1 and 2. Don’t push it in, let it slide in.
Put your printing paper on the front loader, and align as instructed (figure 3). In this example it is the thick and pretty stiff Canson Infinity Print Making Rag. Push the load button. Keep the 17 by 8 sheet loosely fixed. The loaded paper will use the extra sheet as a guide, and it will smoothly make the sharp curve. In figure 4 it has almost reached its final position. Remove the extra sheet, close the loading tray and print.
I have tried this with sizes A4, A3 and A2, with Canson Baryta and Canson Printmaking Rag. Works all the time.

cheers,
Boudewijn Swanenburg
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 02:47:35 PM »

What prevents the paper you will print with from butting against the backing sheet when they come into contact?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

bns

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Re: Dear Epson
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 02:51:32 PM »

The bottom rim of the backing drops below the level of the print paper when it is pushed through. I was surprised by this myself. Seeing is believing.
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