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Author Topic: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII  (Read 3988 times)

BernardLanguillier

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[Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« on: June 29, 2017, 02:11:42 AM »

Average comment on the web: Zero innovation, incremental upgrade, OVF based DSLRs are dead, Nikon is confirming its accelerated fall to the bottom and is about to be bought over by Sony.

No? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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RobertJ

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 03:00:16 AM »

That's probably what they would say, and many are saying the same thing about Canon, except for the part about being bought out by another company. 

Canon seems to be incredibly successful with just about everything they do, regarding sales and patents, and they keep their products out for a very, very long time.

It's crazy to think the Canon 6D was announced on September 17th, 2012.

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kikashi

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 04:14:16 AM »

Average comment on the web: Zero innovation, incremental upgrade, OVF based DSLRs are dead, Nikon is confirming its accelerated fall to the bottom and is about to be bought over by Sony.

A naive reader might gain the impression that you believe the world to be a fair place, Bernard  ;)

Jeremy
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 04:20:23 AM »

A naive reader might gain the impression that you believe the world to be a fair place, Bernard  ;)

There is nothing wrong in trying to make it more fair, is there? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 07:36:10 AM »

The Canon 6D was my last SLR; it was probably the best stills camera I ever used, in terms of no-nonsense performance and delivering the goods.

Indeed Canon must have pixie dust to sprinkle on their products, they seem to be able to deliver what most folks want:)

TomFrerichs

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 07:17:35 PM »

Bernard,

You haven't been lurking on DPReview, have you? 

It sounds SO familiar.  :D

Tom Frerichs
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 07:37:01 PM »

You haven't been lurking on DPReview, have you? 

Not in a long time. ;)

But I'll be fair and post the reversed version in one month when the D820 is announced.

As you understood this isn't "Nikon is better", the message is that both brands are equally pathetic (Canon even a bit more I would dare to say) yet only Nikon gets the bad press...

It is also interesting to note that in a world where you announce steam locomotives after the market went electric, the company announcing second wins because it somehow leaves hope it will surprise us. :)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 07:40:48 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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kers

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2017, 07:40:42 AM »

...
It is also interesting to note that in a world where you announce steam locomotives after the market went electric, the company announcing second wins because it somehow leaves hope it will surprise us. :)

Cheers,
Bernard

If Nikon would introduce something new and exciting for me  it has to be a full frame mirrorless camera with an image  quality that surpasses the d810 and combine it with a sturdy fixed shift/tilt mechanism on it. ( ala the pce 19mm)
Now that would be great.
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NancyP

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2017, 04:58:47 PM »

OK, so the 6D original and now the 6D2 are not "leading" cameras. These are assigned the "first full frame camera" slot, not the top-of-the-line slot. Frankly, the original 6D proved to be a good general-use camera for non-action use. It could have better dynamic range, but it has been a fun-to-use (and lug) macro, landscape, and night landscape camera - well suited for manual focus and vintage lenses due to ability to swap screens and due to compatible lens mount-sensor distance. I am still using old AIS Nikkor lenses on occasion, as well as modern Canon mount lenses. don't know that I would upgrade unless the sensor was spectacularly better - a TS lens or a trip appeals more right now. But I am an amateur and print only up to 13 x 19".
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2017, 10:58:41 AM »

OK, so the 6D original and now the 6D2 are not "leading" cameras. These are assigned the "first full frame camera" slot, not the top-of-the-line slot. Frankly, the original 6D proved to be a good general-use camera for non-action use. It could have better dynamic range, but it has been a fun-to-use (and lug) macro, landscape, and night landscape camera - well suited for manual focus and vintage lenses due to ability to swap screens and due to compatible lens mount-sensor distance. I am still using old AIS Nikkor lenses on occasion, as well as modern Canon mount lenses. don't know that I would upgrade unless the sensor was spectacularly better - a TS lens or a trip appeals more right now. But I am an amateur and print only up to 13 x 19".

The pundits are suggesting the 6D2 will have a fixed focusing screen...

It will be interesting how sharp the 6D2 will be as the 5D4 seems very soft for its megapixel count and I suspect it may be the split pixel AF and not just the filter used. The 6D2 will have a similar set up. Having said that the first to handle them have suggested it looks sharper than the 6D but they have not fully tested yet...

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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2017, 11:29:12 AM »

Average comment on the web: Zero innovation, incremental upgrade, OVF based DSLRs are dead, Nikon is confirming its accelerated fall to the bottom and is about to be bought over by Sony.

No? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

The OVF has legs to it yet...

The A9 may become a good example of why ;-)

The really silly bit you did miss that they are moaning about is the lack of 4K...  I miss the days when most posted about stills features and wish these folk would just go and buy a video camera...

The other moan is they used the latest 45 point APS-C AF module and not a bigger full frame only AF module. However it actually works better on the outer points than all of Canon's AF modules and has all cross type sensors giving better AF spread than the 1DX2 etc on some macro lenses that are harder on the light flux... On the more expensive full frame DSLRs the usable AF points are restricted more on certain lenses to the central points...

The other moan is 1/4000 shutter and 1/180 sync... They miss the fact that a faster shutter will need more stabilisation and shock control for the mirror that is more associated with higher end bodies... This camera is built to be small light and smooth and not need mirror lock up for most shooting...

I could go on, but if the image quality is good it will be another best seller...

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John Cothron

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2017, 09:38:21 PM »

The  6D or 6D2 is the "entry level" FF for Canon.  I've never owned one but everyone I know that has really likes it for the image quality.  It is great for stills but challenged in the action arena due to the AF. This release may be improving on that.

I have owned the 5D, II, and now the IV.  i can't say that I would consider the IV to be soft, nor the previous versions for that matter. The IV in particular seems to have a far weaker AA filter, which I am liking.


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2017, 12:58:12 AM »

The fiction continues, the 6DII goes on with the encouraging trend observed with the 5DIV and offers impressive DR... ;)

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3416153698/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dynamic-range

Cheers,
Bernard
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2017, 03:50:59 AM »

The fiction continues, the 6DII goes on with the encouraging trend observed with the 5DIV and offers impressive DR... ;)

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3416153698/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dynamic-range

Cheers,
Bernard

Ok, so at low ISO, if you need to boost the shadows by +3EV, you start to see noise. I have used 5DII and 6D in the past, I shoot travel and landscape, and never had to do that. I just learned to expose properly.

At higher ISO, the problem goes away.

Rado

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2017, 04:01:21 AM »

As a 6D owner I was in line for this upgrade because a tilty-flippy touchscreen would be useful for me. Canon put improved sensors in their APSC bodies but sticks with the old tech for 6D2? I don't get it (and they won't get my money).
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2017, 07:30:08 AM »

Ok, so at low ISO, if you need to boost the shadows by +3EV, you start to see noise. I have used 5DII and 6D in the past, I shoot travel and landscape, and never had to do that. I just learned to expose properly.

At higher ISO, the problem goes away.

True enough. I use a D5 a lot that is close at low ISO and without shadow noise patterns it is fairly ok. I wouldn't use it for landscape work though, mostly because there much better options.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »

https://www.imaging-resource.com/?ACT=44&fid=17&d=7228&f=z-6d2-vs-5d4-iso100.jpg
ISO 100: Canon 6D Mark II (left) vs. Canon 5D Mark IV (right)

Some areas of the scene it seemed the Canon 5D Mark IV struggled not really reflecting the high Mega Pixel count. Now they have posted the new Canon 6D Mark II, it is doing better...

For someone shooting jpeg and not intending doing any raw processing they would be better off with the Canon 6D Mark II

The Canon 5D Mark IV also cannot run at full speed with all the lens correction turned on. No limits on the Canon 6D Mark II

The Canon 6D Mark II has better processor to the more limited specs ratio, so is unlimited...

The Canon Japan samples posted some time ago looked quite punchy, so it is no surprise to find out this has the same DR as its predecessor... Once again, the jpeg shooter not wanting to process files, will not notice the difference...

It is staggering how the internet has turned into a crying baby about DR... Often files that are reworked look awful on these high DR cameras...

Canon seem to have another winner on their hands...

The Canon 5D Mark IV makes sense for pros that need dual card slot and are more likely to work RAW. The DR is probably higher that anyone really needs but it will give them some security for tricky shots...
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Rado

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 04:36:29 PM »

Should the internet be praising Canon for reusing 2012 era tech instead? Back then they didn't have anything better, but they do now and chose to not use it in this model.

Also, who spends 2000 dollars on a full frame DSLR (and possibly much more money on lenses) and shoots JPG?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 04:49:59 PM »

Should the internet be praising Canon for reusing 2012 era tech instead? Back then they didn't have anything better, but they do now and chose to not use it in this model.

Also, who spends 2000 dollars on a full frame DSLR (and possibly much more money on lenses) and shoots JPG?

Taking into account the fact that the iphone 7 in HDR mode already offers more useful DR in many real world situations... and the very real possibility the iphone 10 will offer as much native DR as the 6DII by the time the 6DIII is announced...

The DSLRs still have the lenses and elder shooters, like us at LL, will continue to like our grip and the weight of our dollards. But we are a tiny community.

Frankly, the 6DII was already pretty lame with the assumption it offered at least as much DR as the 5DIV, not sure how to describe it now that it doesn't. The only credible working theory is that an infiltrated Sony double agent specced it, because I can't think of a better way for Canon to push their 6D users in the welcoming arms of the a7III... ;)

The reality is that Canon probably wants their customers to wait for their own FF mirrorless and offer this lukewarm update to generate some needed cash while hoping that not all 6D users will buy to save their cash for the more strategic release that will follow?...

Anyway, not my problem, just expressing my disbelief about the way some decision making is done in Japan. I am confident I'll have the opportunity to write something similar about Nikon soon too.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 05:00:44 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: [Fiction story] Nikon announces the 6DII
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2017, 06:06:09 PM »

Should the internet be praising Canon for reusing 2012 era tech instead? Back then they didn't have anything better, but they do now and chose to not use it in this model.

Also, who spends 2000 dollars on a full frame DSLR (and possibly much more money on lenses) and shoots JPG?

First dual pixel AF sensor late 2013...

First plus 50 mega pixel full frame 2015... If you want to include pixel density on the front end...

First full frame dual pixel AF sensor 2016...

2012 back end of the Analog stage of the sensor, yep... Albeit it has the extra dual pixel circuit...  :D

With regard to 2000 dollars... That is the issue, photo gear is insanely expensive... I am sure the price will come down

All full frame cameras have larger sensor lower yeld production costs. It is a shame they cannot get the price down...




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