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Author Topic: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX  (Read 5480 times)

CrazyPugLady

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Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« on: June 24, 2017, 06:52:16 am »

Hello folks,

I have a quick question about the Epson inks.

As in my understanding, the K3 ink is the predecessor of the HDR inks, which again is the predecessor of the new HDX inks.

Now, if an older printer, like a 7890 needs new inks and you order them from Epson, are these cartridges still filled with older K3 inks or does Epson "upgrade" the ink to HDR or HDX, too? If not, why? The head technology is unchanged, so should be the ink properties besides maybe gamut and bronzing.. or am I wrong?
Would it then be a problem to buy the huge cartridges for the new SureColor P-9000s and refill the ink to the older printer's cartridges?

I'm not planning to do this, but I do wonder about this.

Kind regards!

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 07:04:06 am »

Inks cannot be updated for older printers
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 09:54:21 am »

Alan is right.

You don't know whether the head technology is the same - at its core, yes, they are all Epson piezo-electric printheads, but beneath that, subtle design changes could have been introduced from one model to the next that we aren't privy to. Even if we did know, it's not the end of the story - a printing system is a lot more than the printhead. The firmware and the driver are specified for the models they are designed to fit, and subtle differences between the inksets could well call forth differences in these behaviours, but again, we are not privy to any of these details. All the design details of every model are specified to cohere with each other and that is why Epson designs most of the cartridges so that they are not interchangeable, except for some that have been intentionally sharable between the relevant models. I'm a firm believer in keeping life easy by just abiding by what they provide for. As I mentioned in the other thread, time is my scarcest/most valuable resource. And I'll add to that here - stress management is another. :-) (See where I'm coming from?) Maybe my formal training as an economist has taught me some indelible and valuable lessons about "comparative advantage" and how to leverage it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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CrazyPugLady

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 10:17:20 am »

Thank you for your answers!

Mark, I don't doubt you are right about time being valuable and using the OEM cartridges is the easiest and less troublesome way. I'm just asking because I am interested on how these things work. For example if it wasn't possible to have older printers profit from the newest developments instead of just replacing them. When I was a kiddo, I'd take apart everything my parents couldn't hide from me and when I got older, most of the time I was able to put stuff back together and it still worked or even worked again :-)
That means I'm just hopelessly curious and see it as a learning experience instead of wasted time :-)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 10:48:41 am »

I don't know how young you are, so I won't go there, but in my youth, which goes back quite a few decades - stuff wasn't as technologically loaded as it is today (general rule) so it was more feasible to do what you were doing. I used to do some of that too. But it's all changed-up now. My car is basically a computer - there was no such thing in the 1950s. So I learned a lot about fixing-up cars back in those days that on its own isn't too useful today, even though we are still dealing with motors that burn fuel to produce motive power. When something happens with the car (not often - it's a Toyota), in it goes to the people with the comparative advantage to fix it. The technologies we are dealing with in these inkjet printers are for the most part proprietary, they are complex and integrated for each model design, and we're excluded from the critical details of all that, so I just don't bother. I agree that curiosity and critical thinking are really valuable assets - but to be deployed selectively, as prospective. I respect where you're coming from - if we can nurse along older stuff rather than sending it to the landfill or the recycling at significant social and private cost, why not. It's just that these days, technologies, designs, and economics are giving us fewer such options.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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aaronchan

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 11:55:59 am »

For generally, they are correct.
Use the right ink on the right printer always help you to extend your printer's life.

BUT
Technically, Piezo printhead has a wide latitude on ink usage compare to thermal print head.
I have worked in China which almost none of the printer use OEM ink.
Even for those who sell printers, they always modify the printer to use non OEM ink for their clients.

There is little trick I've learn from them.
IF you are using a piezo printer, basically you can put any ink into your printer (water base to water base of course)
But if you are using a thermal printer, such as HP or Canon, they would test the ink non-OEM ink before they sell them to their clients.

IF you have a 9800 or 9880 sitting somewhere in your print shop, I would put the HDX ink into it with a refillable cart.
Maybe just for fun, why not?

just my opinion.

aaron

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 12:08:26 pm »

Aaron,

If one can be certain that switching the ink flavours won't damage the printer, sure one can try it and see what happens. But I would remind about two things: (a) there's an investment of time and materials for doing this, and (b) the printer driver for a model expecting one type of ink may not produce fully satisfactorily results for another type of ink it is not tuned for. Maybe this is a big deal, maybe it isn't, but just something to mindful of.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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donbga

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 12:23:35 pm »

Hello folks,

I have a quick question about the Epson inks.

As in my understanding, the K3 ink is the predecessor of the HDR inks, which again is the predecessor of the new HDX inks.

Now, if an older printer, like a 7890 needs new inks and you order them from Epson, are these cartridges still filled with older K3 inks or does Epson "upgrade" the ink to HDR or HDX, too? If not, why? The head technology is unchanged, so should be the ink properties besides maybe gamut and bronzing.. or am I wrong?
Would it then be a problem to buy the huge cartridges for the new SureColor P-9000s and refill the ink to the older printer's cartridges?

I'm not planning to do this, but I do wonder about this.

Kind regards!

You can use Inkjet Malls cartridges and their new HDX style inks, mainly the black inks and the vivid magentas to get very similar results, but you will have to create new ICC profiles.

You can also suck the ink from large OEM cartridges as you suggest and refill the 7890 carts. You will of course need to create new profiles.

Don Bryant
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BobShaw

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 10:02:21 pm »

If one can be certain that switching the ink flavours won't damage the printer, sure one can try it and see what happens. But I would remind about two things: (a) there's an investment of time and materials for doing this, and (b) the printer driver for a model expecting one type of ink may not produce fully satisfactorily results for another type of ink it is not tuned for. Maybe this is a big deal, maybe it isn't, but just something to mindful of.
Absolutely agree. To me time is money and a printer or computer is a tool. There are people who build their own computers. They obviously need a hobby. A computer to me works straight out of the box. Same with printers.

I once used third party cartridges in fairly expensive colour office printer and it destroyed the printer. I just had to throw it out. Lesson learnt.

It is difficult enough to get colour right on expensive and time consuming prints when all of the variables are known. Why waste time and money on third party cartridges with unpredictable results?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2017, 06:16:14 am »

Absolutely agree. To me time is money and a printer or computer is a tool. There are people who build their own computers. They obviously need a hobby. A computer to me works straight out of the box.
except that it is, cheaper to build your  own computer and get the degree of customization needed.  It takes me about one hour to do the physical build.  I can easily upgrade things without needing a technician.
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aaronchan

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 06:38:00 am »

Absolutely agree. To me time is money and a printer or computer is a tool. There are people who build their own computers. They obviously need a hobby. A computer to me works straight out of the box. Same with printers.

I once used third party cartridges in fairly expensive colour office printer and it destroyed the printer. I just had to throw it out. Lesson learnt.

It is difficult enough to get colour right on expensive and time consuming prints when all of the variables are known. Why waste time and money on third party cartridges with unpredictable results?


A car could be a tool for you to commute from point A to point B as well.
But why there are a lot of people like to modify their own ride with third party parts?
Maybe it looks better? driver smoother? go faster? save more gas?

Depends on "why" you want to do it.
Just like Cameras and Printers

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 09:02:13 am »

except that it is, cheaper to build your  own computer and get the degree of customization needed.  It takes me about one hour to do the physical build.  I can easily upgrade things without needing a technician.

I once looked into putting together my own PC. It looked very doable - everything is modular and there are instructions and guides all over the place for what fits with what and how to assemble and test; but I didn't do it - I switched to Mac instead for a number of reasons. Once I saw my 4900 partially disassembled, any thought of me tinkering with a professional inkjet printer vanished; too many moving parts that need to work exactly right, access issues, component analysis issues, etc. etc. Theory of comparative advantage wins again - best left to those trained on these machines unless one has gabs of low-value time to mess around with and doesn't care if it eventually fails. 
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rdonson

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 09:59:52 am »

except that it is, cheaper to build your  own computer and get the degree of customization needed.  It takes me about one hour to do the physical build.  I can easily upgrade things without needing a technician.

From 1980 - 2010 I built 25 or so of my own computers. I bought a few as well. That was fine as an engineer/IT guy as it was fun at times. I even modified and wrote BIOS chips. I gave many to local Boy Scout organizations.

As Mark says, at some point I really wanted to spend my time and energies more on my photography than computers. Like Mark as well, once I watched the HP tech disassemble my Z3100 to fix it I easily made the decision not to spend my time learning to be a printer tech.  I now own an Epson SC P800 and if it gives me 5 years of service before I have to replace it I'm delighted.

I made the transition to Apple in 2010 because I appreciated the hardware and OS much more than I did with the Windows ecosystem.

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Regards,
Ron

donbga

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 10:51:19 am »

Aaron,

If one can be certain that switching the ink flavours won't damage the printer, sure one can try it and see what happens. But I would remind about two things: (a) there's an investment of time and materials for doing this, and (b) the printer driver for a model expecting one type of ink may not produce fully satisfactorily results for another type of ink it is not tuned for. Maybe this is a big deal, maybe it isn't, but just something to mindful of.

It ain't a big deal AS long as one can build their own ICC profiles. If not then I wouldn't go in that direction.

Don Bryant
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2017, 12:26:54 pm »



As Mark says, at some point I really wanted to spend my time and energies more on my photography than computers.

I made the transition to Apple in 2010 because I appreciated the hardware and OS much more than I did with the Windows ecosystem.
building and maintaining a computer is way easier than dealing with a printer.  You also have better control over parts selection with WinOS computers.  Also, I never have to deal with any of the problems of MacOS that I read about on this forum.  I also save about 50% compared to a comparable Apple machine.  The time is insignificant in terms of building and maintenance.
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rdonson

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Re: Epson Ink K3 vs. HDR vs. HDX
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2017, 01:49:25 pm »

Alan, its not worth it to argue Apple vs Windows vs Linux etc.  It's a personal choice.  I'm delighted you're happy with yours.
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Regards,
Ron
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