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Author Topic: At Power Up Epson P7000 Pressurizes, Depressurizes, then Pressurizes Inks  (Read 2065 times)

DeanChriss

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This is a behavior that I have not seen before. When I power the printer on it goes through what seems a normal startup procedure, including pressurizing the ink cartridges. After that it can do two different things:

1. When the LCD Gets to the "Load Paper" prompt as it normally does, the inks depressurize. If I load paper and print something the head moves as normal to find paper edges, then the inks pressurize and the print is made. I'm not sure if this is related as this happened under this circumstance only once, but occasionally when this happens there is some miscommunication between the computer and printer and the print is spit out partly done.

2. During the startup the inks depressurize and then immediately pressurize again, the head does its normal movements (I believe nozzle checking but am not sure) and from then on it behaves normally.

I do have a low (not empty) LLK cartridge. My firmware and drivers were up to date as of April 28. I see there has been an update since, and I plan to update as soon as I get a chance. This is on a Windows 10 computer, but the pressurizing/depressurizing will happen if you just turn the printer on (with the computer off) and do a nozzle check. I plan to call Epson on Monday but just wondered if others are seeing this in the PXXXX printers. Whatever happens I'll post back when I know more.
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datro

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This is a behavior that I have not seen before. When I power the printer on it goes through what seems a normal startup procedure, including pressurizing the ink cartridges. After that it can do two different things:

1. When the LCD Gets to the "Load Paper" prompt as it normally does, the inks depressurize. If I load paper and print something the head moves as normal to find paper edges, then the inks pressurize and the print is made. I'm not sure if this is related as this happened under this circumstance only once, but occasionally when this happens there is some miscommunication between the computer and printer and the print is spit out partly done.

2. During the startup the inks depressurize and then immediately pressurize again, the head does its normal movements (I believe nozzle checking but am not sure) and from then on it behaves normally.

I do have a low (not empty) LLK cartridge. My firmware and drivers were up to date as of April 28. I see there has been an update since, and I plan to update as soon as I get a chance. This is on a Windows 10 computer, but the pressurizing/depressurizing will happen if you just turn the printer on (with the computer off) and do a nozzle check. I plan to call Epson on Monday but just wondered if others are seeing this in the PXXXX printers. Whatever happens I'll post back when I know more.
It's normal.  I see this on my P9000.

Sent from my TouchPad using Tapatalk

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DeanChriss

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It's normal.  I see this on my P9000.

Sent from my TouchPad using Tapatalk

Many thanks for the reply. I've had the printer for nearly a year and never saw this before. I did install updated firmware not long before being away for over a month, so perhaps the updated firmware does this. Anyway, it seems I shouldn't be concerned.

Thanks again.
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DeanChriss

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It's normal.  I see this on my P9000.

Sent from my TouchPad using Tapatalk

Out of curiosity I described this to Epson support in an email and they replied today that "this is not normal" and "the printer will most likely need service".
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datro

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Hmmm...normally I would not have reason to question what Epson support is saying, but in this case I strongly suspect the support tech has not actually observed a Pxxxx printer with current firmware.  I'm pretty sure this behavior started with one of my recent firmware updates, most likely the update before the latest one.  It's also possible this behavior only occurs under certain circumstances (for example, how much time has elapsed since the printer was last powered up, or perhaps the current ink levels in one or more carts).  I've not seen any correlation so far, but for a while now my P9000 has been doing this and is otherwise printing perfectly.

I would ask the support person to take a moment and find a Pxxxx with current firmware and power it up, or perhaps check with the firmware developers to understand more about the startup sequence.  It's clear to me that the startup sequence is different (compared to the x900 printers).  I see a number of things the printer is doing differently at startup which I think are probably related to improving overall reliability of the machine.

Dave
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DeanChriss

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Hmmm...normally I would not have reason to question what Epson support is saying, but in this case I strongly suspect the support tech has not actually observed a Pxxxx printer with current firmware.  I'm pretty sure this behavior started with one of my recent firmware updates, most likely the update before the latest one.  It's also possible this behavior only occurs under certain circumstances (for example, how much time has elapsed since the printer was last powered up, or perhaps the current ink levels in one or more carts).  I've not seen any correlation so far, but for a while now my P9000 has been doing this and is otherwise printing perfectly.

I would ask the support person to take a moment and find a Pxxxx with current firmware and power it up, or perhaps check with the firmware developers to understand more about the startup sequence.  It's clear to me that the startup sequence is different (compared to the x900 printers).  I see a number of things the printer is doing differently at startup which I think are probably related to improving overall reliability of the machine.

Dave

I do have the firmware update you describe and what I describe does not prevent me from making prints. It occurs only at power on from a powered off state, and once the pressurize/depressurize/pressurize cycle is done it does not repeat no matter how many prints I make, until the printer is powered off then on again. I can make prints without problems.

I just got off of a very long phone conversation with tech support where I described all of this. The tech worked with a printer they have there to try reproducing the behavior but he could not. That's not to say he could reproduce my situation exactly (time powered off, ink levels, etc) but he could not make it happen. He also put me on hold for a long time to consult with someone else there. The bottom line is that they are sending parts out tomorrow and Decision One will be calling to schedule service.

At this point I'm not sure whether service is needed. I could definitely continue on with this behavior, but with a few weeks of warranty left I hate to take chances. I should also mention that I've had the printer about 11 months and it exhibited this behavior for the first time 2 weeks ago, and every time I have used the printer since then. The firmware loaded was last updated on 11/12/2016 so something else changed. It could be something like ink levels, or it could be that something isn't working properly. I'll let you know what happens.
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Zachary Goulko

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I do have the firmware update you describe and what I describe does not prevent me from making prints. It occurs only at power on from a powered off state, and once the pressurize/depressurize/pressurize cycle is done it does not repeat no matter how many prints I make, until the printer is powered off then on again. I can make prints without problems.

I just got off of a very long phone conversation with tech support where I described all of this. The tech worked with a printer they have there to try reproducing the behavior but he could not. That's not to say he could reproduce my situation exactly (time powered off, ink levels, etc) but he could not make it happen. He also put me on hold for a long time to consult with someone else there. The bottom line is that they are sending parts out tomorrow and Decision One will be calling to schedule service.

At this point I'm not sure whether service is needed. I could definitely continue on with this behavior, but with a few weeks of warranty left I hate to take chances. I should also mention that I've had the printer about 11 months and it exhibited this behavior for the first time 2 weeks ago, and every time I have used the printer since then. The firmware loaded was last updated on 11/12/2016 so something else changed. It could be something like ink levels, or it could be that something isn't working properly. I'll let you know what happens.

My P9000 has been doing this since day one, when I purchased it back in January. It also does this on it's own every so often, maybe once or twice a day.
I figured it was just a new routine that has been incorporated into the newer models to help the printer with self maintenance and prevent clogging. Would love to hear more details once you find out if this is normal or not.
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DeanChriss

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During almost a year of what I'll call "normal" operation, when I power on the P7000 from a powered off state it pressurizes the inks, moves the head around, and does what seem to be nozzle checks (though I can't be sure) even though all of the automated nozzle checking and cleaning are turned off. I print fairly consistently when I'm here but I am away a few times per year for a few weeks at each time. In the past, when I have left the P7000 sit idle for 3-4 weeks, when I first power it on it does a cleaning. I know that because the LCD says it's cleaning and displays a progress bar. This takes a long time. That's how everything worked 100% of the time before my last absence, when the printer sat idle for around 5 weeks. When I first powered it on after that it did the pressurize/depressurize/pressurize behavior I described for the first time since it was delivered almost a year ago. That was late May and it has behaved like that every time I've powered it on since then. Prints have no quality issues. What's of note here is that it did NOT do any cleaning and it did NOT seem to do what I assume is the nozzle checking. I did print a manual nozzle check and it was perfect. I have actually never seen an imperfect nozzle check from this printer, which seems remarkable. Also of note is that I purchased a LLK ink cartridge about a month before my last absence because that ink was very low and I expected to replace it at any moment.

Recalling the behavior of my 7900, it did not clean if the ink was too low and would leave you "stuck" until the low cartridge was replaced. Today I started wondering if the new behavior I'm seeing in the P7000 is just what it does when it wants to clean but can't because there is an ink cartridge that's too low. If so, it's a lot better than forcing you to swap cartridges back and forth when no cleaning is actually needed. So, I powered the printer on and it did the pressurize/depressurize/pressurize behavior. Then I printed a perfect nozzle check. Then I swapped out the nearly empty LLK ink cartridge for the new one. When I closed the ink door it pressurized the ink, leaving things where they were before I swapped cartridges. Then I powered the printer off, waited a couple minutes, and powered it on. It started up, pressurized the inks, depressurized them, started a cleaning ("Cleaning" w/ progress bar on the LCD) with the inks depressurized, pressurized the inks around 20% (not sure exactly) of the way through the cleaning, finished the cleaning, immediately started a second cleaning, and was then ready to load paper. Hmmm. So then I powered the printer off, waited a couple minutes, and powered it on again. It behaved "normally", like it did prior to my last absence, with one ink pressurization, and what appears to be nozzle checking, etc., followed by the load paper prompt. I have cycled power a few times since and it continues to behave "normally".

At this point I think there is nothing wrong with the printer. When the firmware thinks a cleaning should be done (powered off for several weeks) but a cleaning cannot be done (because an ink cartridge is too low) it behaves as I originally described with the pressurize/depressurize/pressurize cycle.

Also of note is the fact that ink use of the P7000 is much more even across the different colors, including O and G. Like the 7900, the P7000 seems to use LK quickly followed by LLK, but unlike the 7900 all of the other inks aren't far behind LLK. I suspect this is because of what I think may be automatic nozzle checks and perhaps abbreviated cleanings that cannot be disabled every time the printer is powered on. I could leave the printer powered on to avoid that by disabling the power off timer (that has a max of 24 hrs). When the printer is left powered on I notice it makes mechanical noises occasionally without waking up or moving the head. I'm not sure what it's doing. Given that the nozzles were 100% clear without a cleaning (the inks were too low) after sitting idle for 5 weeks, and that I have never seen an imperfect nozzle check in almost a year of operation, it doesn't seem the automatic checks and cleanings are necessary. OTOH, I've never seen a clog on the P7000, so why mess with success?

I hope all of this will help someone.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 08:58:08 am by DeanChriss »
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datro

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Dean,

Thanks for this data from your experiment.  I concur with your overall assessment of what is happening, i.e. that the low ink in combination with some logic path being taken in the firmware at startup is the reason for the behavior several of us have observed.  This has been my conclusion all along when I first took notice of the behavior on my P9000.  I am often running with low ink in at least one cart position.  At the moment it is the MK ink for me which has been close to empty now for quite some time.  All of my other carts are at about 90% full.

If it were me, I wouldn't proceed with D1 service.  I think your printer is fine.  Like you I'm getting perfect nozzle checks consistently and the prints are outstanding.  BTW, at startup I have only seen the "...cleaning" message once or twice since I've had the printer (almost a year now).  But what DOES happen at every startup is the AID check; this is when the head positions over the flushing box and fires ink from each pair of nozzles in sequence to detect if any nozzles are missing (it is the metal mesh screen over the flushing box pad that is actually part of the sensing mechanism).

Another startup feature I've noticed is the head moving slowly over the entire length of the carriage while vibrating.  If you have your hand on the printer when this is happening you can definitely feel the vibration and I can even hear a slight hum.  Again, I think this is a startup routine in the firmware which may help keep ink from clumping in the head and dampers etc.

Dave

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DeanChriss

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Dean,

Thanks for this data from your experiment.  I concur with your overall assessment of what is happening, i.e. that the low ink in combination with some logic path being taken in the firmware at startup is the reason for the behavior several of us have observed.  This has been my conclusion all along when I first took notice of the behavior on my P9000.  I am often running with low ink in at least one cart position.  At the moment it is the MK ink for me which has been close to empty now for quite some time.  All of my other carts are at about 90% full.

If it were me, I wouldn't proceed with D1 service.  I think your printer is fine.  Like you I'm getting perfect nozzle checks consistently and the prints are outstanding.  BTW, at startup I have only seen the "...cleaning" message once or twice since I've had the printer (almost a year now).  But what DOES happen at every startup is the AID check; this is when the head positions over the flushing box and fires ink from each pair of nozzles in sequence to detect if any nozzles are missing (it is the metal mesh screen over the flushing box pad that is actually part of the sensing mechanism).

Another startup feature I've noticed is the head moving slowly over the entire length of the carriage while vibrating.  If you have your hand on the printer when this is happening you can definitely feel the vibration and I can even hear a slight hum.  Again, I think this is a startup routine in the firmware which may help keep ink from clumping in the head and dampers etc.

Dave

I'm not going to proceed with the D1 service. I have talked with D1 and Epson support again, and described everything in detail to both.  The D1 person said one of the first diagnostic steps he would have done is swap ink cartridges, which obviously would have "fixed" my problem. Epson tech support says that the first person I talked with should have told me to swap cartridges as that's the first thing he would have done. Unfortunately both the person at D1 and now 2 techs at Epson believe that the multiple pressurization cycle I described is abnormal under all circumstances and that my result points to a defective ink cartridge. I truly do not believe that is the case. If the ink cartridge was leaking pressure the compressor would cycle periodically when the printer remains powered on and awake, which does not happen.

The support folks ought have a flowchart of expected behavior that includes all of the possible normal conditions (low ink, powered off longer than X, etc.), but it seems they do not. I think it's more complicated than any of them realizes.

Yes, I have noticed the head moving slowly over the entire length of the carriage while vibrating.

I have also had the printer do the long cleaning only a couple times in the past year, only when it sits idle for a couple weeks or more. I did think it was odd that even though I completed a perfect looking manual nozzle check immediately before swapping cartridges, the printer saw fit do do two cleanings in a row, even though I have max auto cleanings set to one. Even when all the auto ANC and cleanings are turned off, the printer obviously still does them. There seem to be many conditions we don't know about built into the firmware. Maybe some of these are "bugs", but I do not think any behavior I've seen is a hardware failure.
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