Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?  (Read 1302 times)

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« on: June 12, 2017, 08:19:21 AM »

Well I have had this printer since 2011 and it has had a few problems.  I had new print heads and some other work by Canon about 5 years ago and it had been working pretty well, other than the NIC card going bad.  Now I am trying to decide to throw more money at it or to junk it.

A couple of weeks ago I received an error - 03800500-2F30 which could indicate a print head problem or many other things. It would print after restarting it however.  Now, after investing in about 5 new ink carts, I am getting Error E161-403F, which indicates that the left print head has a problem.  I tried removing the print head and cleaning it and now I get a message that the print head has a fault.

I am taking delivery of a new Pro 4000 in about a week, but would love to get some more use out of this monster (especially the ink), so i am considering trying a new print head.   But of course that may mean the other print head is ready to go, or maybe a totally different problem may be present in addition to the print head.

I know one can make a decision for me, but what would you do?  These seem to be fairly problematic machines and it may be a money pit and I am not ready to pay Canon $1500 to repair it.  So, plunk down the cash for a risky print head solution, or junk it?

Thanks
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10397
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 08:32:14 AM »

As you correctly observe, I cannot tell you what to do, I can only suggest ways to think about the decision. Based on what you say, the fundamental principles at play are two-fold: (1) sunk costs are sunk, while incremental costs and risks are real, and (2) technology has improved quite a bit over time. Applying these principles to your situation, starting with (2), I would recommend doing nothing until your 4000 arrives. Then print a few photos in the 4000 that you had already printed in the 8300. I expect you will see a noticeable improvement in the resolution and colour quality of the photos. That speaks in favour of focusing on new technology. Turning to item (1), at this stage of its life and given the issues you are experiencing, there is an unquantifiable risk of unknown future costs for maintaining the 8300, whereas a new printer is new and comes with a warranty. The money you've spent on ink is a sunk cost; the cost of monetizing that ink by converting it into prints could be high - or not - depending on these unknown future maintenance costs. If you can return unopened cartridges and sell opened ones at a heavy discount that could help.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 09:06:13 AM »

Thanks, Mark, good points.  The risk is pretty high in trying to keep the thing running, and trying to sell the ink maybe my best bet.  I have a whole 330ml set that is largely unused - some still unopened, and the rest still showing full in the printer, and that is probably the extent of the value of the printer in its current condition. 

Thanks again
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 04:45:48 PM »

Every year and a half you need to replace a head or two depending on the amount of material run through it. Less if you are a moderate printer. My 8300 has been the best LF production printer i've ever owned, just fantastic and I would't trade it for one of the Chinese made new ones.. If you try to keep doing head cleanings when a head is bad you over heat the head board and that can blow it.  Thats a mistake. If you do that it is $1,000.00 down the drain. They also should be unplugged during lightening storms or the mainboard could be blown. Other than that these printers are solid as a rock.  It will keep printing after one channel is bad which you can see with a printed nozzle pattern. But if it starts doing more head cleanings , Stop and order a head or ask canon about the error message. I've always found them very helpful. You only need to replace the one head that is missing a nozzle. The new ones have one head and like Epson if one nozzle is bad the all channels are useless.


Thanks, Mark, good points.  The risk is pretty high in trying to keep the thing running, and trying to sell the ink maybe my best bet.  I have a whole 330ml set that is largely unused - some still unopened, and the rest still showing full in the printer, and that is probably the extent of the value of the printer in its current condition. 

Thanks again
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 05:20:46 PM by deanwork »
Logged

stockjock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2017, 07:04:19 PM »

Thanks, Mark, good points.  The risk is pretty high in trying to keep the thing running, and trying to sell the ink maybe my best bet.  I have a whole 330ml set that is largely unused - some still unopened, and the rest still showing full in the printer, and that is probably the extent of the value of the printer in its current condition. 

Thanks again

You can buy a new print head on eBay for about $320.  These are lower priced because of their being sourced overseas.  In my experience there is no risk buying these heads compared to picking one up from B&H.  And the ominous error messages I have gotten with my 8400 have always been fixed with a new print head.  Sadly, these are simply viewed as a rather pricey consumable.

Is it even possible to use an opened ink cartridge in a new printer?  I bought some a year ago but I couldn't figure out how to get them to work.  If anybody has any experience with that I would love to hear your comments.

And if you decide to dump the unopened inks send me a private message.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 07:22:31 PM »

Yea me too!

I'll keep running my 8300 as long as they make heads that work in it. My hp heads cost $70.00 each but you have 6 of them so it comes out about the same, only not as much money all at once. Course with Epson you can't replace them yourself, which is a super drag and that will bite ya.

And if you decide to dump the unopened inks send me a private message.
[/quote]
Logged

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2017, 07:31:58 PM »

Are you guys sure the installed inks can't be used in another printer? I can't imagine Canon bothers to have intelligence  in the cartridge that would give a memory pairing it with a particular printer.

Regarding the reliability of the 8300, I think that you are really lucky Dean,  a lot of people have had problems with them.  It has been very troublesome for me.
 
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 09:38:38 PM »


Lot of people?

I've been on these forums since I've had mine for 6  years and I don't remember any long complaint  threads about them. They have been very solid. There have been more threads about the 8400s made in China, but compared to the hundreds of long threads about Epson failures on all their big printers, they are insignificant.



Are you guys sure the installed inks can't be used in another printer? I can't imagine Canon bothers to have intelligence  in the cartridge that would give a memory pairing it with a particular printer.

Regarding the reliability of the 8300, I think that you are really lucky Dean,  a lot of people have had problems with them.  It has been very troublesome for me.
Logged

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 09:17:30 AM »

Lot of people?

I've been on these forums since I've had mine for 6  years and I don't remember any long complaint  threads about them. They have been very solid. There have been more threads about the 8400s made in China, but compared to the hundreds of long threads about Epson failures on all their big printers, they are insignificant.

Like I said, good for you that yours has been perfect.  But there are many (which I equate to a "lot") of people who had trouble with these printers (8300/6350).  Check this site and others (google provides plenty of results)  for details on cryptic hardware error messages that can only be resolved by replacing parts till it works again, premature print head failures, print head failures causing main board failures, failure of the network interface, $1500 service calls, and "free to a good home" or "it gave up the ghost" posts from well respected bloggers.  A good site to see the variety of problems and frustration is the Canon IPf Wiki adn see the 2 and 1/2 star rating on Amazon reviews). I understand that when all is well, people don't generally post praises for an item doing what it should and the posts are skewed to the negative, but that doesn't mean a lot of people don't have problems.   I know nothing of the later Chinese made models, you may be right and they are worse.

I had an Epson 7600 that worked flawlessly for years till it had an incurable clog and was not practical to repair.   So I tried the IPF8300, if I had gotten an another  Epson, it may still be running, or could be sitting as a huge paperweight as well.  Anyway, I like the Canon feature set (no swapping ink, and multifunction roll option, etc.), so I am sticking with them for the 8300 replacement.   I anticipate better reliability, and have my fingers crossed.

Here wishing you many more years on the happy printing path!
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 02:12:16 PM »

Like I said if the head is in warranty and fails you get a new head shipped overnight. The "criptic message" most people get is when the keep trying to do cleanings after the head is gone. That message, if you take the trouble to call Canon, which most of us don't, is head overheating stop cleaning. Keep trying to print and the printer keeps doing a cleaning procedure, heating the head board even more until it blows. This is Very common and totally unnecessary.

What pisss me off about both Canon and Epson is they don't tell you this stuff until it's too late. They should give you a clearly written users manual to read before you even start using it. We always end up finding out the freaking hard way, with an expensive service call. Epson should tell you to keep your capping assembly moist and clean always and your heads will last twice as long, but they don't. I've heard techs from both companies tell me the home offices want to have parts replaced. The don't want us doing preventative maintenance . They make a lot of cash off of these service calls. They call Print heads "consumables".  So in the end we have to do our own homework and find out the hard way how to maintain this equipment. Shouldn't be that way but it just is.
Logged

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 06:27:04 PM »

Like I said if the head is in warranty and fails you get a new head shipped overnight. The "criptic message" most people get is when the keep trying to do cleanings after the head is gone. That message, if you take the trouble to call Canon, which most of us don't, is head overheating stop cleaning. Keep trying to print and the printer keeps doing a cleaning procedure, heating the head board even more until it blows. This is Very common and totally unnecessary.

What pisss me off about both Canon and Epson is they don't tell you this stuff until it's too late. They should give you a clearly written users manual to read before you even start using it. We always end up finding out the freaking hard way, with an expensive service call. Epson should tell you to keep your capping assembly moist and clean always and your heads will last twice as long, but they don't. I've heard techs from both companies tell me the home offices want to have parts replaced. The don't want us doing preventative maintenance . They make a lot of cash off of these service calls. They call Print heads "consumables".  So in the end we have to do our own homework and find out the hard way how to maintain this equipment. Shouldn't be that way but it just is.

The attitudes of Epson and Canon doesn't surprise me - it is a way to maximize profits.  And after all, I am a hobbyist who bought a pro printer and assumed the risk of big commercial size repair bills!

My heads are definitely out of warranty - I have called Canon multiple time for various problem, like my NIC card.  They couldn't help other than scheduling a service call.  I am sure that the messages could be less "cryptic" so that deciding to replace a part would be less of a gamble - for instance mine had error "2f30" which I understand can mean a problem with a ink tube unit, purge unit, head management system, flex cable,main controller, print head, or more!  I didn't try to do a cleaning but just turned it off and on printed one page and then got "403f" - indicating it is the left print head.  Since print heads are considered consumables, you'd think the messages would be clear - "replace the left head".  But the combination of errors makes buying an expensive print head a risky proposition.

Oh well, I hope the next one is more trustworthy.  If not maybe I'll take up a cheap hobby, like yacht racing!
Logged

Kanvas Keepsakes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 332
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 04:23:13 AM »

So here's my input on my old 8300.  I had it for about 4yrs and it worked flawlessly.  I think I replaced the printheads once with maintenance.  Then I started with the error messages.  Bought another printhead due to the error and of course swapping it caused my waste cartridge to fill.  Replaced that too.  To make things worse I had just recently bought and installed about 6 of the inks with 700mL tanks.  Finally after getting it to work again it was about a week or two later where another message appeared.  Research showed it was the power supply unit.  I looked online and found a used power supply unit on Ebay for $75.  While waiting for it to arrive, I was searching for a manual or guides online on how to replace this part.  Absolutely nothing.  Not even one hit.  When it arrive I called Canon.  They told me nothing is online because they only release instructions on an as need basis to certified Canon techs to replace.  He said I would have to buy a new one because techs wont install a used one.  Quoted me $1500 for parts and labor.  I ended up connecting with someone on this forum that was able to sell me a new 8400 and would include an extra print head as well.  I took him up on the offer.  Couple months later one of my inks ran out and I had a job that needed to be printed asap.  I pulled out the old 700mL tanks I saved from the 8300 and they worked!  The 8400 read it and showed the ink levels correctly.  So don't worry too much about the ink tanks going to waste if you replace the 8300.  I have about a year with my 8400 and I love it. 
Logged

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 08:35:54 AM »

So here's my input on my old 8300.  I had it for about 4yrs and it worked flawlessly.  I think I replaced the printheads once with maintenance.  Then I started with the error messages.  Bought another printhead due to the error and of course swapping it caused my waste cartridge to fill.  Replaced that too.  To make things worse I had just recently bought and installed about 6 of the inks with 700mL tanks.  Finally after getting it to work again it was about a week or two later where another message appeared.  Research showed it was the power supply unit.  I looked online and found a used power supply unit on Ebay for $75.  While waiting for it to arrive, I was searching for a manual or guides online on how to replace this part.  Absolutely nothing.  Not even one hit.  When it arrive I called Canon.  They told me nothing is online because they only release instructions on an as need basis to certified Canon techs to replace.  He said I would have to buy a new one because techs wont install a used one.  Quoted me $1500 for parts and labor.  I ended up connecting with someone on this forum that was able to sell me a new 8400 and would include an extra print head as well.  I took him up on the offer.  Couple months later one of my inks ran out and I had a job that needed to be printed asap.  I pulled out the old 700mL tanks I saved from the 8300 and they worked!  The 8400 read it and showed the ink levels correctly.  So don't worry too much about the ink tanks going to waste if you replace the 8300.  I have about a year with my 8400 and I love it.

Thanks for that, KK,  I suspected that the ink carts could be moved to a new printer.  So yours were removed earlier from you old 8300, and have been on stored till you needed them?  I have an almost full set sitting in the printer so I'll try to sell the whole set of installed and unopened ones.  I think I can package them safely using a FoodSaver to help preserve them.
Logged

Kanvas Keepsakes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 332
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 02:38:26 AM »

Disregard my last post  :(  I just ran out of Cyan color so I put my Cyan toner from the 8300 and it's giving me an error saying toner cartridge not recognized.  I guess I just got lucky with my first swap. 
Logged

gdi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 08:11:30 AM »

Disregard my last post  :(  I just ran out of Cyan color so I put my Cyan toner from the 8300 and it's giving me an error saying toner cartridge not recognized.  I guess I just got lucky with my first swap.

Or maybe unlucky with this one.   

Canon warns not to install used cartridges in a different model printer or the ink levels may not be read accurately and could cause problems.  That implies that they would be fine in another 8300. 
Logged

stockjock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 01:26:31 PM »

Or maybe unlucky with this one.   

Canon warns not to install used cartridges in a different model printer or the ink levels may not be read accurately and could cause problems.  That implies that they would be fine in another 8300.

I was not able to install used cartridges from a 8300 that I was given into my 8400.  It may have to do with the different models.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 05:17:19 PM »


That's funny someone gave me a stack of 8400 carts and I've been using them regularly in my 8300 and all is normal. Strange.




I was not able to install used cartridges from a 8300 that I was given into my 8400.  It may have to do with the different models.
Logged

stockjock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 07:36:59 PM »

That's funny someone gave me a stack of 8400 carts and I've been using them regularly in my 8300 and all is normal. Strange.

We should swap them lol.   More seriously, I only tried one of the cartridges I was given, but it wouldn't surprise me if the software was changed with the 8400's to reject cartridges used in the 8300.  I have no evidence of that but it seems like something a big company would do.
Logged

YL

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: Decision time for Canon ipf-8300 - Plunk or Junk?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2017, 09:39:37 PM »

Hi guys! First time post here since joining the LL ranks. We have both the 8300 and 8400 at our shop. If you have the PFI-706 inkset, they are compatible between both printers. If they are the older PFI-704, I believe you can only use it on the 8300.

In regards to the print heads, I've never tried buying on ebay from overseas the past, but I am glad to hear that it is a viable option and that others had good experience with it. However, one of the benefits of buying something domestically from one of Canon's recognized distributors is that if you have any problems with the print heads clogging within a year of installing them, their customer service team is pretty cool about overnighting a replacement as long as you are below the 1 Million mDot useage.

I hope this helps!
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up