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Author Topic: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover  (Read 6987 times)

donbga

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FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« on: June 07, 2017, 11:47:32 am »

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scyth

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hogloff

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2017, 12:15:29 pm »

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2017, 06:01:45 pm »

Here we go again...

Cheers,
Bernard

JKoerner007

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2017, 08:29:40 pm »

I believe all of this is speculation-bait. (People "thinking out loud," without a single factual platform on which to base their prognostication.)

To begin with, I believe all camera manufacturers need to face the fact that budget cameras are dying (and will soon be dead).

Further, people confuse "market share" with "quality products." E.g., porsche may not have the same "market share" as Toyota, but which company produces better cars (and from which manufacturer would you rather drive its most prestigious offering?)

But let's get back to the average consumer: 10 years ago, base-level consumers needed to buy "a budget camera" in order to take home photos, vacation photos, etc.
Today, modern cell phones take photos that are better than 90% of the cameras 10 years ago, are more convenient, and cost nothing to process.

All camera manufacturers need to recognize the fact budget cameras are dead.

CASE IN POINT:
My own brother and his family recently planned a European trip. I implored him that he should invest in a quality camera to document his family's experience. After shopping ... and shopping ... his whole family concluded 1) they didn't want to spend the extra money; 2) they didn't want to have to carry an "extra" camera; when 3) they each already had "cameras" in their high-end cell phones; and, better still, they each realized 4) they could instantly share their phone-taken photos with friends, on Facebook, whereas they would be forced to "go develop" their images taken with a separate camera, weeks later, after they got home. Result?: they stuck with their cell phones.

The truth is, 99% of the population doesn't need a DSLR anymore. It is globally-understood that cell phones now offer excellent image quality and are MORE CONVENIENT (for the vast majority of the population) than any camera can ever hope to be.

To me, Nikon is showing how serious they are about meeting this basic reality, by 1) taking the majority of its low-end offerings off the table, as a lost cause ... and by (right now) 2) upgrading the high-end of its lens and camera portfolio ... areas where cell phones simply cannot compete.

Further, to address (what remains) of the low-end in Nikon's portfolio, Nikon is developing SnapBridge. The program may have had issues in the beginning, but the interface is getting much better now. The ability (for budget consumers) to be able to take a photo with a GREAT budget camera (like the Nikon D5600), and instantly have a .jpeg sent to their cell phone, gives them 1) the same instant ability to share to social media as their cell phone, but 2) on a much higher level.

I think Nikon is far from "giving up."

On the contrary, I think Nikon is grabbing "the modern bull" by the horns in dealing with a changing paradigm.

That's my $0.02
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 08:34:47 pm by JKoerner007 »
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2017, 08:50:28 pm »

So which Rumor is correct? Fuji or Nikon? Only the COVFEFE knows for sure!    ::)
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hogloff

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 09:58:50 pm »

Well I believe that where there is smoke, there is fire. The last few years Nikon's financial figures have not been great. You could see someone looking like Fuji coming in and bailing out Nikon if need be. Really has little to do with how great Nikon cameras or lenses are or if you prefer a Porsche or a Toyota... it's all about revenue and margins and these have been falling at Nikon. Maybe it will emerge as a niche provider like Porsche, but Nikon's history has not been niche products.


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scooby70

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 04:42:20 am »

Revealing article on Nikon's struggles.

https://sentaku-en.com/articles/2017/04/nikons-bleak-future.html

"Compact digital cameras have virtually become deadwood since the advent of smartphones, and single-lens reflex cameras have become a niche product catering only to the needs of collectors."

That's an eye brow raiser of a comment.
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mecrox

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 04:56:32 am »

There's a point behind this rumour that's been well said elsewhere. It is that if a Chinese company acquired Nikon then they would also acquire all Nikon's patents and so would be able to produce pretty well any kind of camera or lens including the most sophisticated modern ones. Nikon's patents out in the wild in China might spell the end for the whole Japanese camera industry over the next decade or so since they'd be completely undercut on price. So one can see why the Bank of Japan might be worried about Nikon going AWOL. It isn't only Nikon which would be affected. The articles about Nikon suggest that their semiconductor lithography business is the real offender: it's in danger of taking the whole outfit down.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 06:31:03 am »

From what I see in many places I go to, the budget DSLR is far from being dead. I see a lot of people still using them. The reason may be that today, a kit consisting of camera plus kit lens is so cheap, and offers so much quality, it is hard to resist.

Any sort of MILC is the odd one out, and still rare, from what I see around me.

hogloff

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 08:15:44 am »

From what I see in many places I go to, the budget DSLR is far from being dead. I see a lot of people still using them. The reason may be that today, a kit consisting of camera plus kit lens is so cheap, and offers so much quality, it is hard to resist.

Any sort of MILC is the odd one out, and still rare, from what I see around me.

Looking at what is being used today is not a good measure as there were boat loads of these budget DSLR's sold over the last 10 years. Going forward the important figure is what is selling. Looking at figures from CIPA, the MILC market share continues to climb at the expense of the DSLR market.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 08:29:08 am »

Looking at what is being used today is not a good measure as there were boat loads of these budget DSLR's sold over the last 10 years. Going forward the important figure is what is selling. Looking at figures from CIPA, the MILC market share continues to climb at the expense of the DSLR market.

Travel in China and India, where the future of photography lies without a possible doubt, and it very much feels that the larger the camera the better.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 10:10:25 am »

Travel in China and India, where the future of photography lies without a possible doubt, and it very much feels that the larger the camera the better.

Cheers,
Bernard

Shipments to Asia the first 4 months this year saw an increase in mirrorless of 147% over the same period last year whereas DSLR cameras basically stayed the same. This indicates an increasing interest in mirrorless systems in Asia.
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JKoerner007

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 12:22:32 pm »

Well I believe that where there is smoke, there is fire. The last few years Nikon's financial figures have not been great. You could see someone looking like Fuji coming in and bailing out Nikon if need be. Really has little to do with how great Nikon cameras or lenses are or if you prefer a Porsche or a Toyota... it's all about revenue and margins and these have been falling at Nikon. Maybe it will emerge as a niche provider like Porsche, but Nikon's history has not been niche products.

Not necessarily. Ever see people smoke fake cigarettes? Smoke is produced ... with no actual fire.

That said, similarly, the only "smoke" I see invariably comes from the idle speculation of bloggers and internet posters.

The only actual evidence I see is Nikon directly saying they are removing much of their low-end offerings, concentrating more on their highest-end offerings. I am also seeing Nikon attempting to deal with the issue of "instant sharing" capability with their cameras via SnapBridge. Who knows? Maybe there will be a "Nikon Phone" as a replacement for the budget-level camera :D

JKoerner007

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2017, 12:41:46 pm »

Looking at what is being used today is not a good measure as there were boat loads of these budget DSLR's sold over the last 10 years. Going forward the important figure is what is selling. Looking at figures from CIPA, the MILC market share continues to climb at the expense of the DSLR market.

As an investigator, I see almost 100% of investigative professionals today using their cell phones to collect evidence ... unless it is video sub rosa of a target under surveillance.

I am considered a "dinosaur" because I still bring a camera and a couple of lenses. In fact, one claimant I was dealing with, as I was photographing the damage to his vehicle, asked me, "Do those cameras really take photos better than a cell phone?"

Public ignorance is amazing.

However, that said, in good light (and with standard subjects, e.g., a scene, a vehicle) cell phones do take perfectly-acceptable images.

In dark light, or of far-away subjects, cell phones are all but useless.

In fact, just to make a point to a collegue, I brought my Nikon D810 and my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge to a recent case I had involving a seedy dive bar. It was very dark inside. I took the photos with my D810, on a tripod, ISO 640, but a very low shutter speed, to capture the natural ambience of the bar (with no flash). The images were nice. By comparison, the results, even on Samsung's best came out abysmal. (See photos below).

Yet there are investigators who will still submit cell phone scene photos to a client ... muddied due to dark conditions ... simply because they don't know DSLRs really are superior.

90% of the public does not want to buy a color-calibrated monitor and expensive photography software (nor expensive camera gear).
They just want to "snap and post" ... either on the internet or on a photo sheet to present to a client.

So, even though a client may not appreciate (how or why) well-taken photos are the way they are, at least I know why.

JKoerner007

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2017, 01:18:27 pm »

Travel in China and India, where the future of photography lies without a possible doubt, and it very much feels that the larger the camera the better.

Cheers,
Bernard

In every place I have ever been, from a local park, to scenic Yosemite, the number of people snapping photos "with their cell phones" outnumbers the number of those lugging-around any kind of DSLR (or mirrorless) by at least 50-1, if not more so.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2017, 05:35:51 pm »

In every place I have ever been, from a local park, to scenic Yosemite, the number of people snapping photos "with their cell phones" outnumbers the number of those lugging-around any kind of DSLR (or mirrorless) by at least 50-1, if not more so.

This is clearly not the case in Japan. Yes, there are many people using smartphones but in scenic locations such a Kyoto temple where I spent a few days recently, the majority still goes to cameras.

Even on top of a pretty challenging mountain recently, I was the only one with a medium format camera, but there were many people with real cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard

Jan K.

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2017, 05:51:09 am »

Re. that "magazine" rumour, I like this piece http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2017/06/nikon-and-fuji.html

We're promised buckloads of rain today, so no more time for internet reading. There's a group of weird beeches, that must be shot wet.

Recommend shooting more and reading less...
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 01:55:54 pm »

Recommend shooting more and reading less...
Amen!!!
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BAB

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Re: FujiKon - Fuji-Nikon takeover
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 11:05:11 pm »

Well Fujis net worth is about thre times that of Nikon but giving up par value one third of Fuji net worth ?..?? One would also need to know Fujis cash on hand, but I'm sure if Nikon is for sale it will be at a rather huge discount from its 6.4B.


Maybe Amazon is a player?
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