Using cut roll paper in Epson 3880

[Dale_Cotton]

(Forum search engine not behaving, so apologies if topic already covered.)

I have a few long, narrow frames I want to re-use but my printer is the 3880. I’ve been thinking of buying a roll of 17” paper then cutting off appropriately sized lengths. My concern is getting the cut sheets to lie flat enough before inserting in the printer, especially at the leading and trailing edge. But also, because the printer does not have vacuum suction, it would be susceptible to an over-all curve with the ink-receptive surface bowing up in the middle of the sheet. Even with boxed, pre-cut sheets I have had head strikes from both these issues.

I do have a home-made de-roller with a 3 inch core.

Am I better off abandoning this project? If not, is there a particular photo ink paper that is particularly good for this task? Here in Canada I have easy access to 17 inch rolls of Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Epson Proofing Semimatte, Inkpress Luster, Moab Lasal Luster (300 GSM), and Canson Photographique (310 GSM). But I would prefer to avoid the last two as being pricier than needed for the job.

Thanks so for any input!

[stockjock]

(Forum search engine not behaving, so apologies if topic already covered.)

I have a few long, narrow frames I want to re-use but my printer is the 3880. I’ve been thinking of buying a roll of 17” paper then cutting off appropriately sized lengths. My concern is getting the cut sheets to lie flat enough before inserting in the printer, especially at the leading and trailing edge. But also, because the printer does not have vacuum suction, it would be susceptible to an over-all curve with the ink-receptive surface bowing up in the middle of the sheet. Even with boxed, pre-cut sheets I have had head strikes from both these issues.

I do have a home-made de-roller with a 3 inch core.

Am I better off abandoning this project? If not, is there a particular photo ink paper that is particularly good for this task? Here in Canada I have easy access to 17 inch rolls of Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Epson Proofing Semimatte, Inkpress Luster, Moab Lasal Luster (300 GSM), and Canson Photographique (310 GSM). But I would prefer to avoid the last two as being pricier than needed for the job.

Thanks so for any input!

I'm surprised nobody else has thrown an answer your way but I will take a stab at it.  Back when I still used the Epson 3880 I did cut down some 17" rolls of Canson Platine.  It is possible but it is irritating, time consuming, and generally quite the hassle.  Here are some of the problems.  1) the surface of most papers is quite fragile.   2) Exactly how are you planning on cutting the paper?  I used a Carl 18" rotary paper trimmer.  That does a nice job of providing a clean cut put it makes measuring the correct distance and getting a perfect 90 degree cut surprisingly difficult.  You need a very long table to lay the roll out on because you want the paper to be as flat to the surface of the table as possible.  You could use a cutting mat but then you have to lay a straight edge along the paper and you risk marring the surface.  Also, many cotton rag papers don't cut very well.  The Canson Platine cuts terribly.  3) Once you cut the paper it does roll up.  At the beginning of the roll you might not need to decurl it but by the end it won't lay flat by just putting some books on top.  4) Storing any paper longer than 22" can be hard.  I never did find a box that worked well for 17x25" paper and I am unaware of any solutions for panoramic 17" wide paper.

If you do decide to pursue this project I suggest you start with a very cheap paper and see if you like the results.  That way you won't have wasted much money.  I am fond of the Epson Proofing White Semimatte Inkjet Paper S042003.  It is cheap, easy to work with, lays flat, and surprisingly good quality for the price.  It cuts very easily with a rotary trimmer and I assume box cutters would work fine.

FWIW.

Paul

[David Sutton]

When I had a 3800 I would cut roll paper all the time to save costs.
I used a cutting mat, a steel straight edge and a craft knife. Worked fine for Ilford GFS and matte papers.
I'd allow an extra inch and a half at each end for head strike (not as bad as it sounds) and flatten on the kitchen table for a day under tissue paper using whatever large flat object I could find. Even foam core with books on top worked.
You could print after about 12 hours but the longer the better. It's the first and last inch or so that gave the most curl.
A rotary trimmer is also very useful for this job, but I found I had to be more careful with it to avoid scratches, compared to a steel ruler. Either way, cotton gloves and a rocket blower are probably a must.
On the 3800, there was a little lever on the side that was part of the paper feed, and it had to be in the correct position for longer pieces of paper to run through correctly, but I forget the details.
David

[Garnick]

Hi Dale,

As mentioned already, this approach to cost savings can and will very likely be an exercise in futility and frustration.  I would start with the reference to rotary trimmers.  Well, there are rotary trimmers and then there are good rotary trimmers.  For more years than I would want to mention I have been using the RotaTrim trimmers/cutters and have never had any sort of issues with them.  I use the 15" and 24" varieties and are definitely not inexpensive.  They are however excellent trimmers, made in Sheffield England and will last a lifetime of use, especially the second(current) iteration.  My first one was purchased in 1974 and I've often wished it had a cutomter installed.  I know it has seen at least a million + cuts during its lifetime and I have never had need to sharpen the blade, since it is self-sharpening with every cut.  I still use that original cutter for pieces that don't require exact precision, and it still works as it always has. These are the definition of quality rotary trimmers, although I'm aware there is another brand that I would also recommend if I could recall the name, also very expensive.  The bottom line being that if you are really bent on this approach you will likely need the proper tools to do so.  The other very important tool would be the D-Roller, since your 3" diameter DIY unit simply is not going to do the job on most papers, especially resin based ones(Luster, Gloss, Semi-Gloss etc).  Matte papers are somewhat easier and quicker to flatten, but no guarantee they will not cause destructive head strikes.  Again, the D-Roller is not inexpensive, but it does do the job every time. 

Hope this helps Dale.  Good luck.

Gary

[Alan Goldhammer]

I did some work for Museo several years ago and they sent me a 17x50 roll of Silver Rag.  Having a 3880, I had to cut sheets.  I have a Rotatrim cutter and a long dining room table to work on.  It's possible to get square cuts.  As you work your way down the roll, subsequent sheets will have more curl.  I have four inch mailing tubes that I use to ship prints and these work fine to gently get the curl out of the paper.  I just roll the paper onto the tube with the coating side face up also using a sheet of interleave paper to keep the side protected.  It's definitely a hassle as others have already pointed out but if you are careful it does work and you can get the size you need.  I think the 3880 can print up to 38 inch long prints.

[JayWPage]

I have regularly bought rolls of paper to use with my Epson 3880 and the method I use is to cut the paper to size and press it between large sheets of foam board for a period of months. The length of time will depend on the paper, the heavy-weight Hahnemuhle alpha cellulose papers are the most difficult papers I have ever flattened, they take 6 months or more. But, if you press them for a year, they will behave just like they were cut sheets from of a flat box. I used to cut everything a few inches longer but don't bother anymore since it's not necessary if you wait until the paper is flat before trying to print on it.

Unrolling heavy-weight papers is difficult to do without buckling the paper and an extra set of hands is really useful. I have tried reverse rolling papers around mailing tubes, etc but found it often introduced waves in the paper, which sometimes weren't noticeable until the paper was printed on, and sometimes framed. As others have mentioned, having space, a large working surface and a good cutter can make life a lot easier.

[BobShaw]

Similar to David Sutton, I use cut roll paper all the time on 3880. Ilford Gold Fibre is one of the papers I use. Cutting rolls is the only way to make large panos and you do it up to 17" x 2 metres. Use a D roller (mine is home made) and allow extra each end. I just cut them with my mat board cutter.

[Dale_Cotton]

Thanks so much, everyone! This is exactly the sort of input I was looking for. Didn’t expect it to be an easy decision, and clearly it’s not going to be. Upshot seems to be that it’s doable, but fraught with headaches. I do have access to the Ilford GFS and Epson Proofing Semimatte rolls. I would be using an exacto-type knife and straight edge to cut, something I’ve been doing for years to chop cut-sheet paper down to custom sizes. Boy, am I tempted to use this as an excuse to buy a Rotatrim, not to mention a D-Roller, but just don’t see me getting my money’s worth out of either long term.

One thing I forgot to ask is which paper feed path to use, assuming paper no thicker/stiffer than GFS? I’ve always been able to get away with the top feed to date. My memories of using the front and back feeds from previous Epsons are not happy ones. I would expect the top feed to work regardless of paper length. Certainly don't have two or three feet of clear space behind the printer to work with.

[donbga]

Thanks so much, everyone! This is exactly the sort of input I was looking for. Didn’t expect it to be an easy decision, and clearly it’s not going to be. Upshot seems to be that it’s doable, but fraught with headaches. I do have access to the Ilford GFS and Epson Proofing Semimatte rolls. I would be using an exacto-type knife and straight edge to cut, something I’ve been doing for years to chop cut-sheet paper down to custom sizes. Boy, am I tempted to use this as an excuse to buy a Rotatrim, not to mention a D-Roller, but just don’t see me getting my money’s worth out of either long term.

One thing I forgot to ask is which paper feed path to use, assuming paper no thicker/stiffer than GFS? I’ve always been able to get away with the top feed to date. My memories of using the front and back feeds from previous Epsons are not happy ones. I would expect the top feed to work regardless of paper length. Certainly don't have two or three feet of clear space behind the printer to work with.

If you want to cut from rolls DO use this as an excuse to purchase a Rotatrim cutter. Any other (ALL OTHER) brand is inferior for long term use. Actually I use a cheap little Fiskar cutter for other types of paper cutting.

If you use a RIP you can print panos much longer than the 38+ (like about 38.75 in.) inches. Qimage unfortunately WILL NOT print long images on the 38xx printers since the printers do not support roll cutters.

I feed through the rear feeder with the rear paper guide mounted and it works extremely well but is not recommended for volume work.
 

[elolaugesen]

Or to get it 100% square....  ask your framer to use his mat cutter to get a proper cut? ( I assume he knows what he is doing)

[David Sutton]

Just a heads up about trimmers. They are really useful to have (I own a Ledah 670 which has worked faultlessly), but there is one problem with them for cutting off a roll. You have to feed the paper under the plastic guide next to the cutter while unrolling the paper at the same time. A wonderful way to bend and scratch the surface. Swearing doesn't seem help either.
To make sure the cut is square to the edge I have a large cheap plastic set square which sits on a piece of tissue paper over the paper surface. It's only necessary to use it once every 5 or so cuts to check your measurements.
David

[BobShaw]

1. doable, but fraught with headaches.

2. One thing I forgot to ask is which paper feed path to use, assuming paper no thicker/stiffer than GFS? I’ve always been able to get away with the top feed to date. My memories of using the front and back feeds from previous Epsons are not happy ones. I would expect the top feed to work regardless of paper length. Certainly don't have two or three feet of clear space behind the printer to work with.

1. Easy as, no headaches.
2. Always the rear feed. Just make an extension or rear support for the wall behind. I use an empty roll. Use Mirage Print for pretty much any size you want.

[William Chitham]

May be stating the obvious but the ink load has a considerable effect on the curl - nice dense images with lots of ink flatten out much quicker than light images.

William Chitham.

[Dale_Cotton]

Thanks yet again: 4 posts, 4 more great suggestions!

Going back a ways, Paul/stockjock wrote:

> 4) Storing any paper longer than 22" can be hard.  I never did find a box that worked well for 17x25" paper and I am unaware of any solutions for panoramic 17" wide paper.

Great point, but for my needs I guess it would suffice simply to roll long prints up together in a very loose roll and stick in a corner. De-curling might be needed again for re-use but it seems do-able. Another thing that would work in my case would be to leave multiple prints, one behind the other, in the same frame. When I get bored with one print, just take the frame backing off, and swap one of the other prints to the front-most position. A thinner backing board might be needed, depending on how snug things get.

IAC, I at least see a path forward at each decision-point thanks to all this great input! Thanks so much. I think I'm good to go now.

[howardm]

For storage of pano paper, try going to Lowes/HD and get a Sonotube (approx 12" diameter) and cut it down.  you can roll the paper and store it inside.  Companies like ArchivalMethods etc have 17x25+ boxes (but they aren't cheap).

[BobShaw]

I don't store prints except in frames on the wall. One advantage of having your own printer is that you print as required. If you really must store them then get a set of A0 or similar plan drawers.

[stockjock]

I don't store prints except in frames on the wall. One advantage of having your own printer is that you print as required. If you really must store them then get a set of A0 or similar plan drawers.

I have to say that I really disagree with that attitude.  I get a lot of pleasure from actually printing my photographs and looking at the finished product.  I use 6' long menu/check racks to temporarily display them on my walls and I swap out the older photos with newer ones as I print them.  I have hundreds of prints stored in archival 13x19 and 17x22" boxes.  The boxes permit you to store prints safely and archivally for long periods of time.  From time to time I'll bring out a box of prints and look through them myself or share them with friends.  I find everything about the print to be more satisfying than simply looking at an image on the screen.  I do have one wall with a 3x4 grid of 17x22 photos mounted on gator but in general I'm not interested in living with just a handful of my images long term.  From time to time I'll take my best images and assemble them into a book I print using Blurb but I've found those books aren't especially satisfying compared to the prints themselves.  Everybody is different of course but the idea of only printing what you are going to frame sits badly with me.  One of the things I have always loved about the Luminous Landscape site has been the attention they have given to prints, printing, and photo books.

[BobShaw]

I have to say that I really disagree with that attitude.  I get a lot of pleasure from actually printing my photographs and looking at the finished product.

Not disagreeing. So do I. That is why I print them and professionally frame them so they go on permanent display. We are talking about large prints here, over 30". I also put prints in display folders. For customers however they are always done on demand if they are not buying off the wall. I want to present them in the best possible way.

[stockjock]

Not disagreeing. So do I. That is why I print them and professionally frame them so they go on permanent display. We are talking about large prints here, over 30". I also put prints in display folders. For customers however they are always done on demand if they are not buying off the wall. I want to present them in the best possible way.

Yes, for large prints I agree with you completely.  Printing as needed and displaying framed is really the only way to go. I misunderstood your intention/usage.