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Author Topic: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer  (Read 25184 times)

digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #200 on: September 18, 2017, 12:07:00 PM »

/off topic/ on Windows platform it is up to a specific software code what to use (if at all)...
But it can only use one right? And it should be the profile that reflects the condition of the display, not a profile that doesn't. So confused by doing this produces anything useful but open to hear more.
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Andrew Rodney
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #201 on: September 18, 2017, 12:56:59 PM »

But it can only use one right? And it should be the profile that reflects the condition of the display, not a profile that doesn't. So confused by doing this produces anything useful but open to hear more.
The profile includes the calibration curves as well, so different profiles can describe different states of the display with the same OSD settings but different calibration curves (say different gamma and\or white point targets) or other factors such as VGA vs HDMI connection.
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #202 on: September 18, 2017, 01:27:02 PM »

The profile includes the calibration curves as well, so different profiles can describe different states of the display with the same OSD settings but different calibration curves (say different gamma and\or white point targets) or other factors such as VGA vs HDMI connection.
Describe it yes. Produce it? The display is currently calibrated so you're suggesting loading some LUT or profile updates OSD? It can in very, very few displays.
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Andrew Rodney
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scyth

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #203 on: September 18, 2017, 02:30:04 PM »

But it can only use one right?

/off topic/ because it is up to the code to decide if it wants to engage any CMS or not at all it technically can use different even for neighboring pixels on your monitor  ;D and more so - different each time for each and every pixel ...  Wild Wild West ... certainly nobody writes a code like this...
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #204 on: September 18, 2017, 02:32:39 PM »

/off topic/ because it is up to the code to decide if it wants to engage any CMS or not at all it technically can use different even for neighboring pixels on your monitor  ;D and more so - different each time for each and every pixel ...  Wild Wild West ... certainly nobody writes a code like this...
So you can't answer my questions.
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Andrew Rodney
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #205 on: September 18, 2017, 02:48:31 PM »

Describe it yes. Produce it? The display is currently calibrated so you're suggesting loading some LUT or profile updates OSD? It can in very, very few displays.
Do you not know a calibration can be made exclusively via calibration curves which are loaded to the videocard gamma table when the profile is selected?  This usually needs a 3rd part app or manually selecting "as default" in the Color Managemnt pane in Windows.
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #206 on: September 18, 2017, 03:15:39 PM »

Do you not know a calibration can be made exclusively via calibration curves which are loaded to the videocard gamma table when the profile is selected? 
Yes I do. 
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Andrew Rodney
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #207 on: September 18, 2017, 03:56:59 PM »

Yes I do.
So what was your question then? Win applies the corresponding calibration curves when you change the default profile in the Color Management tab, but it is kind of too cumbersome.
Ok, I can erase that feature from the list
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #208 on: September 18, 2017, 04:00:09 PM »

So what was your question then?
The one(s) still below, unanswered...
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Andrew Rodney
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #209 on: September 18, 2017, 04:13:20 PM »

The one(s) still below, unanswered...
Care to quote once again?  I am probably dumb and a non-native English speaker. I have tried to guess it was "Profiles describe but not produce".
The answer then is every profile with calibration curves describes the behavior of the display with the profile's calibration curves applied.
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #210 on: September 30, 2017, 08:21:43 PM »

I think this maybe at least a food for thought http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=118943.0
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kirkt

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #211 on: October 05, 2017, 10:26:20 AM »

I apologize if this is old news - I just received an email regarding v 5.5 of BabelColor's Patch Tool.  The email notes that one of the new features is the "Spectrum Generator"

Quote
PatchTool version 5.5 has a new “Spectrum Generator” tool with which you can generate spectral data from XYZ or L*a*b* coordinates.

Use the Spectrum Generator tool to generate a spectrum which matches input tristimulus values (i.e. XYZ or L*a*b*) for a given illuminant and Standard Observer. The conversion method used in this tool is based on Principal Component Analysis (PCA). PCA is a mathematical process by which a few spectral components (or base vectors), typically three to six, are extracted from a large number of spectrums forming a reference dataset. The goal of the process is that any spectrum (i.e. color) from the dataset can be obtained by adding the principal components in various proportions, with these proportions derived using the tristimulus values for one or more illuminant. The accuracy of the synthetized spectrum will generally increase as more components are used.The reference dataset used for component extraction is selected to cover a large gamut and is usually representative of a given group of pigments. The principal components of this tool were extracted from measured samples of the NCS, Munsell, and OSA-UCS color order systems. What this means in practice is that, for the same color coordinates, a spectrum generated by this tool is likely to be more similar to a NCS, Munsell, or OSA-UCS spectrum than to the spectrum of a Pantone chip.- Illuminants for 3 components fit: A, C, D50, D55, D60, D65, D75, D93, E, F2, F7, F11, plus two Custom Illuminants.- Illuminants for 6 components fit: A, C, D50, D65, E


From: http://www.babelcolor.com/patchtool_spectrum_generator.htm

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this feature as it relates to using spectral data in Profile Editor?

Thanks,

kirk
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Alexey.Danilchenko

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #212 on: October 12, 2017, 06:24:11 AM »

I apologize if this is old news - I just received an email regarding v 5.5 of BabelColor's Patch Tool.  The email notes that one of the new features is the "Spectrum Generator"

From: http://www.babelcolor.com/patchtool_spectrum_generator.htm

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this feature as it relates to using spectral data in Profile Editor?

That is not a real spectral data. And there is not even a way to estimate its accuracy in relation to real spectrometer measurements.
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AlterEgo

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #213 on: October 12, 2017, 09:01:38 AM »

I apologize if this is old news - I just received an email regarding v 5.5 of BabelColor's Patch Tool.  The email notes that one of the new features is the "Spectrum Generator"

From: http://www.babelcolor.com/patchtool_spectrum_generator.htm

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this feature as it relates to using spectral data in Profile Editor?

Thanks,

kirk

matlab script from chineese dude works (with all the fine print that AD ref'd above of course) decent enough = http://www.gujinwei.org/research/camspec/ = I use modified for my purposes for couple of years to generate estimated CFA SSF for dcamprof
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #214 on: October 12, 2017, 10:37:27 AM »

That is not a real spectral data.
From a Spectrophotometer the software supports, how so?
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Andrew Rodney
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Alexey.Danilchenko

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #215 on: October 12, 2017, 12:23:12 PM »

From a Spectrophotometer the software supports, how so?
Where have you seen measured spectral data in the referenced link?

That was about restoring spectral data from given integrated version (XYZ or LAB) by using PCA.
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Alexey.Danilchenko

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #216 on: October 12, 2017, 12:27:36 PM »

matlab script from chineese dude works (with all the fine print that AD ref'd above of course) decent enough = http://www.gujinwei.org/research/camspec/ = I use modified for my purposes for couple of years to generate estimated CFA SSF for dcamprof
It "works" with caveats. Try to use it on cameras with substantially different CFA or without those (Foveon for example) and see what errors that will give comparing to the real measured spectral responsivity curves.
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digitaldog

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #217 on: October 12, 2017, 12:29:00 PM »

Where have you seen measured spectral data in the referenced link?
Link or actual software product which does interface with a Spectrophotometer and does capture spectral data?
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Andrew Rodney
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Doug Gray

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #218 on: October 12, 2017, 01:20:08 PM »

The spectrum generator only uses spectral information from a patch set to determine XYZ for a selected illuminant and only if the XYZ isn't provided for the illuminant. In the case of two selected illuminants, it uses the spectral information to derive a second set of XYZ values. Then it finds either the three principal component's based on the associated XYZs from their database of colors (Munsell, etc) or the 6 principal ones if a second illuminant is provided..

The documentation leaves something to be desired. I ran some tests and the PCA values are selected based on the actual spectrum, if provided. If two illuminants are selected the spectrum is used to determine the reflectance XYZs at both illuminants and  the PCA values are much closer to the actual spectrum in most cases.

The spectral match is better when the second illuminant is selected since that requires spectral content otherwise the second illuminant XYZ is just an estimate.

Thus, one can derive PCA values two ways, from the XYZ or from the actual spectrum using two illuminants. If from the XYZ of only one illuminant, one can presume the spectrums are closer to those in their database in an XYZ sense. If from the spectrum of, say a printer and using two illuminants, closer to the printer's. I suppose one could compare the two PCA sets to estimate how close a specific printer was to the database of color objects under different illuminants.

The purpose is to expand the colors from a patch set to produce a "spectrum" that more closely approximates that of their reference database of colors. Presumably this will usually be closer to the spectrum of colors in nature as opposed to the limited set of spectra from a CMYK printer when using just XYZ values and a single illuminant.


« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:22:32 PM by Doug Gray »
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daicehawk

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Re: New profile making software: Lumariver Profile Designer
« Reply #219 on: October 12, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »

Link or actual software product which does interface with a Spectrophotometer and does capture spectral data?
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