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Author Topic: Minimalism  (Read 19827 times)

Morris Taub

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Life is short my friends, do what you feel, feel what you do...
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2017, 01:37:04 am »

RSL

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2017, 07:44:15 am »

Russ - you're not really providing feedback, you're providing an opinion.

Hi Phil, Please explain the difference.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 09:14:14 am »

...

RSL

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2017, 10:05:22 am »

 :D :D :D :D  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

James Clark

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 02:09:40 pm »

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James Clark

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Re: Life is short my friends, do what you feel, feel what you do...
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 02:11:11 pm »



160221_pool.torso2_018147
by Morris, on Flickr

Morris, I adore this shot.   The color is perfect - I suspect some might argue over the decision to cut off the swimmer, but I think it's very "contemporary," for lack of a better way to characterize it.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2017, 02:17:15 pm »

Yes, great shot, Moris.

RSL

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2017, 02:30:51 pm »

+1. And it's in the right thread.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

James Clark

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2017, 02:39:27 pm »

So now that we've started the "minimalism" discussion, shall this thread be the place to also post our minimalist images? :)  Or should one be started over in the User critiques section?  I suspect the images would be great.
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luxborealis

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2017, 02:48:45 pm »

Hi Phil, Please explain the difference.

I don't mind taking up the challenge on Phil's behalf as I feel quite strongly there is a subtle, but definite difference...

Feedback
"the transmission of evaluative or corrective information about an action, event, or process to the original or controlling source" – Merriem-Webster.com
"information about reactions to a product, a person's performance of a task, etc., used as a basis for improvement." – Oxford dictionaries.com

Opinion
"a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter." – Merriam-Webster.com
"a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert" – Merriam-Webster.com
"a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge." – Oxford dictionaries.com

So, it would seem, the two are very similar, but I do detect a slight difference in the way the American Merriam-Webster dictionary defines them compared to the British Oxford dictionary definitions and perhaps this is the basis of confusion; yet again, divided by a common language (something I know all to much about, being a Canadian who taught in England for three years!)

Overall, however, the concept of feedback seems to imply a certain level of helpfulness towards improvement, rather than simply a statement of good or bad, a judgement.

I found this helpful as an explanation of the difference between opinion and feedback on a life coach blog. By no means is it necessarily authoritative, but it certainly puts the meaning of the two terms into perspective.

As an educator working with youth and adult learners, I find people respond much better to feedback that helps them develop their knowledge, understanding and skills, rather than simply judging their work for what it is. Our goal in education is not to simply judge where a student is at, but give them the tools, assistance and feedback to help them become something more. So, amazingly, we've gone away from marks (a judgement) in favour of feedback that will directly help a student towards achieving the next level. Many do not understand the difference and simply want the world to be the same as when they grew up, but, believe it or not, there are more positive ways to encourage progress whether it's geography or photography.

I found this definition of feedback and it might just fit the situation we have ourselves in with this forum thread (from Merriem-Webster.com):
"a rumbling, whining, or whistling sound resulting from an amplified or broadcast signal (such as music or speech) that has been returned as input and retransmitted".  :)

Oh, and Russ, I hope you've managed to find some of the photos I've posted here over the years – many of which are unapologetically "tourist pictures". In the future, please try not to confuse me with that forum troll who had all the answers but never posted a single photo (I can't remember his name).
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Terry McDonald - luxBorealis.com

RSL

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2017, 03:50:44 pm »

Fair enough, Terry. And I did go over to Flickr and look at your landscapes. I realize there's no point arguing about whether or not landscape has "artistic, technical and emotional merit." I'll buy "artistic" (whatever that means), and "technical," "Emotional" is a horse of a different color. In any case it's good work.

Unfortunately, none of your "feedback" definitions explain the difference between feedback and an opinion. Instead I see: "a view, judgment, or appraisal. . ." and "a formal expression of judgment by an 'expert'" (often defined as a drip under pressure), but it's still an opinion.) and "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge," which actually is close to the very definition of an opinion, though sometimes also known as a WAG.

The opinion from the "educator" sort of bypasses the basic question of how you help people "develop their knowledge, understanding and skills." You don't do that by patting them on the ass when what they're doing is crap, though our school systems and universities are loaded with "educators" doing exactly that. To educate people you have to be critical when criticism is called for. No matter how educated an "educator" may be, that kind of criticism is opinion.

And of course the definition of amplifier feedback (rumbling, whining, whistling) often fits exactly the kind of feedback I see on LuLa.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 04:01:31 pm by RSL »
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Farmer

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2017, 06:35:19 pm »

Hi Phil, Please explain the difference.

Terry covered it, although you seem to dismiss it.

In the most simple terms, feedback is specific and intended to help.  An opinion is simply a view with no value added.
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Phil Brown

degrub

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2017, 07:35:37 pm »

“Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.”

– Yoda
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RSL

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2017, 07:53:42 pm »

Terry covered it, although you seem to dismiss it.

In the most simple terms, feedback is specific and intended to help.  An opinion is simply a view with no value added.

Hi Phil,

So you think "view," "judgment," "appraisal" are not synonyms for "opinion?" That's certainly an interesting point of view, but it doesn't square with the meanings of words.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2017, 09:27:03 pm »

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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

pegelli

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2017, 04:54:38 am »

+1. And it's in the right thread.
Huh? You complain about pet shots in user critiques and now you like pictures in the coffee corner.  :o   ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Morris Taub

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2017, 05:18:37 am »

Morris, I adore this shot.   The color is perfect - I suspect some might argue over the decision to cut off the swimmer, but I think it's very "contemporary," for lack of a better way to characterize it.

thanks, James...

Morris Taub

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2017, 05:19:06 am »

HSakols

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2017, 09:35:19 am »

The sharing of pet photos is just people taking a break and being human.  Here is my favorite cat photo.  And here is Yosemite which believe me at times I want to leave! I'm sorry if I broke some sacred rule.  I do like the discussion and I hope I'm developing as a photographer. 



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Farmer

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Re: Minimalism
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2017, 07:14:16 pm »

Hi Phil,

So you think "view," "judgment," "appraisal" are not synonyms for "opinion?" That's certainly an interesting point of view, but it doesn't square with the meanings of words.

Where did I say that, Russ?  In general terms I've made the point that there's a difference between having an expressing an opinion and then doing something constructive as a result of your opinion (feedback).

Lots of words have synonyms, but very few are 100% identical in meaning, either due to history or common usage.  But if you just want to nail this down to exact meanings of words, there's plenty of websites for dictionaries.

If, instead, you want to have a discussion about the value of saying "that's bad because..." and "that's bad because and here's some ideas on how to improve it", then we can do that here.
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Phil Brown
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