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Author Topic: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600  (Read 296 times)

robdeszan

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Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« on: May 17, 2017, 12:34:37 PM »

Hello there, long time reader, first time poster.

I am venturing into the world of printing (used to print in a darkroom until late 1990s), moved on to fown film processing +dedicated scanner + digital processing approach, now predominantly using medium format digital and want to go back to printing again.

Speaking Black and White printing only. How do the two options compare when it comes to print quality?

I live in the UK so I would need to import Ebony from the US (a minor pain) but I am worried about some user reports re head clogging on 1400/1500 family with ebony kits.

Has anyone had a chance to compare the two options?

Many thanks,
Pat
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Paul Roark

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2017, 12:01:26 PM »

Pat,

I have no experience with the P600, but in general the "Eboni" based carbon inksets I use and describe in the various PDFs I've published have been more lightfast than the OEM "Advanced B&W" approach, and they can also be vastly less expensive.

When the "generic" base c6b is used to dilute the Eboni MK, the resulting inksets have been the least likely to clog of any, including the OEM inksets, that I've used.  The reason is rather simple.  The c6b base is for matte paper only and has no binders (glue) in it. Binders are needed to stick pigments to glossy papers, but matte papers don't need any binders at all.  The binders are a major factor in clogging.

In real world work with wide format printers, I find the Eboni MK clogs from simply drying out if not used about like the OEM MKs I have experience with.  The dilute carbons, on the other hand, are way less likely to clog.  When there is a gap in a nozzle check with the dilution inks, it's usually just a bubble of air that has "invaded" the head due to it having sat too long and not been used.

If you are comfortable with old wet darkroom chemicals, you'd be able to make the dilution base yourself from the formulas I've published.  MIS Associates (www.inksupply.com), which commercialized my open source formulas, has also listed the formulas for it's pre-mixed generic base.   (I always use version c6b.)  If you make your own base, all you need is the Eboni MK.  The only problems I've heard of from the use of the base appear to relate to the use of water that was not distilled -- that is, bad water.

There aren't many areas where the least expensive option is also the best, but if you are a B&W photographer and print on only matte papers, the "Eboni-6" based carbon inks, with DIY mixing may be such a case.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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graeme

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2017, 12:51:12 PM »

I've been using a BW inkset from these guys:

http://www.farbenwerk.com/Black-White

in an Epson 1500W for the last few weeks. ( I'm in the UK ).

I've tried not to go more than about 3 days without printing or at least doing a nozzle check. I've had to do about 3 head clean cycles in that time.

I've been very pleased with the results I've been getting but I have to add the disclaimer that I don't have any formal photographic training & don't know a damn thing about traditional BW darkroom printing.

The Farbenwerk site has a section in English but some of the how to articles are only available in German. ( Google Translate was my friend ). René at Farbenwerk seems like a helpful guy.

Graeme





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deanwork

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2017, 08:13:31 PM »

Hi Paul,

I am buying a new hp z 3200 printer tomorrow and I would like to do some experiments with my old z3100 printer. I want to dilute the hp Vivera light gray into even lighter dilutions and relinearize with x-rite software and drive it with studio print rip that supports this printer.

I don't know if you have ever diluted gray pigments for use in thermal head printers or not.
Could you recommend a base for me to do this with? I want to be able to print on both gloss fiber papers as well as matte rag media? Any suggestions would be helpful. There are chipped empty hp 70 ink carts available to fill.
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Paul Roark

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 11:27:58 AM »

John,

I stayed with Epson for all of my work with inks.  The thermal heads use cleaners to fight the build up of residue on the heating elements.  Those are missing in all the bases I formulated.  (Or if what I used works as such, it's just a happy coincidence.)   So, don't use them for the HP printer.  That said, the HP PK and Grays are the most stable in terms of neutral Lab A and B that I know of.  The carbon inksets can easily beat them in Lab L, but for staying neutral, HP did a really good job.

Ernst has posted information about a European company that seems to make a variety of bases.  I believe there was a base that was thermal head compatible.  I forget the name, but you might consider searching something like "ink dilution base" and Ernst's name to see what he found.  Or, just email him if he's not following this thread.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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deanwork

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 01:12:37 PM »

Thanks Paul , that was very helpful. I will contact Ernst when I find out how much my Studio Print license upgrade will cost me. There are about three companies that sell 3rd party inks with refillable carts for the z series so somebody knows how to make the base. MIS offers ink for the  Hp 70 carts so they probably have it as well. Getting these companies to share their formula might not be easy though. With SPrint you can control the ink limits very precisely and the dither might be better than the Hp driver, at least it was for all the Epson printers I used it on. The way I look at it if I screw up a few Print heads and it doesn't work it's not going to cost me much at all.



quote author=Paul Roark link=topic=117983.msg978355#msg978355 date=1495466878]
John,

I stayed with Epson for all of my work with inks.  The thermal heads use cleaners to fight the build up of residue on the heating elements.  Those are missing in all the bases I formulated.  (Or if what I used works as such, it's just a happy coincidence.)   So, don't use them for the HP printer.  That said, the HP PK and Grays are the most stable in terms of neutral Lab A and B that I know of.  The carbon inksets can easily beat them in Lab L, but for staying neutral, HP did a really good job.

Ernst has posted information about a European company that seems to make a variety of bases.  I believe there was a base that was thermal head compatible.  I forget the name, but you might consider searching something like "ink dilution base" and Ernst's name to see what he found.  Or, just email him if he's not following this thread.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
[/quote]
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robdeszan

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Re: Epson 1500W with Ebony VS Epson P600
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2017, 03:08:11 PM »

Many thanks for all the encouraging replies. I've ordered the carbon museum ink set from Farbenwerk (already filled cartridges today) and a 1500W printer (arriving tomorrow); if the results are satisfying I might be tempted to mix my won inks. I've not done printing for over 16 years! Very exciting :) will share some impressions results later.
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