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Author Topic: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back  (Read 2347 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 11:11:02 AM »

Neat!

Cheers,
Bernard
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BartvanderWolf

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eronald

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 11:42:02 AM »

And add a filter-wheel, and presto!!!

Cheers,
Bart

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narikin

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 04:42:07 PM »

Phase One says:

"The IQ3 100MP Achromatic enables photographers to capture a timeless expression."

I guess that expression is stunned shock at the $50k price!   :o
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 05:18:57 PM »

Phase One says:

"The IQ3 100MP Achromatic enables photographers to capture a timeless expression."

I guess that expression is stunned shock at the $50k price!   :o

When you consider the amount of top notch lighting equipment you can get for that price and the excellent B&W conversions you can get from many other cameras (starting from the 100mp backs), it does indeed feel a bit pricey. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 08:32:25 PM »

Hmm, P1 has been making monochrome backs for quite a while.  I doubt that any of them have out-sold their color counterparts.  I'm sure this back makes really beautiful images.  Fifty grand, though... my new 8x10 was only eight grand  ;)

ErikKaffehr

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One question comes to mind…
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 09:48:30 PM »

Hi,

AFAIK the Achromatic has now IR-filter. That is nice for IR-photography but doesn't it make IR-cut filters a nearly must for normal photography?

The other point is that with colour sensor we could use channel mixer to enhance colours. But with Achromatic we need to use colour filters, say for enhancing clouds. It cannot be made in post, as colour information cannot be recorded.

Best regards
Erik

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 10:22:17 PM »

my new 8x10 was only eight grand  ;)

Wow, you went for a very expensive one. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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BJL

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 01:37:00 AM »

Hmm, P1 has been making monochrome backs for quite a while.  I doubt that any of them have out-sold their color counterparts.  I'm sure this back makes really beautiful images.  Fifty grand, though... my new 8x10 was only eight grand  ;)
How much 10x8 film and processing do you get for $50,000?
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BJL

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 01:43:41 AM »

And add a filter-wheel, and presto!!!
Does anyone now what previous monochrome MF backs are mostly used for? One thing I imagine is technical uses like art reproduction and forensic studies, where more than three color filters might be used to avoid color metamerism, and for IR and UV of course.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2017, 03:45:37 AM »

Does anyone now what previous monochrome MF backs are mostly used for?

Showing off in Shanghai appears to be a major application. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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RDMAX

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 12:29:56 PM »

Does anyone now what previous monochrome MF backs are mostly used for? One thing I imagine is technical uses like art reproduction and forensic studies, where more than three color filters might be used to avoid color metamerism, and for IR and UV of course.

They are usually for architecture and landscape records that require archive-like quality.
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alifatemi

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 04:20:08 AM »

please explain why for archive and record, they need B&W where color in architectural photography sometimes is major?
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Ali

teamwiess

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 09:04:59 AM »

I would think another use would be fine art photography.  Don't have one of the Phase One achromatic backs but do have the Leica Monochrom and for certain moods and shots it is my go to.  In my opinion, and I know others would disagree, it is noticeably better than converting from color.  That being said, the monochrome + 50 APO is < 15k so am pretty sure I would never pay 50k for this back but sure some would.  I know folks who thought I was crazy for going for the Monochrom due to the fact that I wasn't previously a Leica M shooter so my kit was basically new and relatively expensive just to get B&W.  I feel it has been worth it but appreciate the other opinions.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2017, 10:37:40 AM »

When you consider the amount of top notch lighting equipment you can get for that price and the excellent B&W conversions you can get from many other cameras (starting from the 100mp backs), it does indeed feel a bit pricey. ;)

Taking a leaf from Porsche's pricing and charging more if something normally included is left out. Works for them -- or did, I haven't bought a Porsche in years.

Jim

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 02:24:05 AM »

Hi,

Keep in mind that a normal (Bayer) sensor samples three different colours. So a 100 MP sensor samples 25MP red, 25MP blue and 50MP green pixels.

So, if you shoot a dominantly red subject, just as an example, the resolution may be closer to 25 MP. Using a monochrome sensor would deliver full detail, but with no colour information.

In many situations, a multishot solution may be optimal. The sensor is moved between four exposures, so each pixel is exposed trough all four filters. That would contain all luminance information and also colour. But that would not be workable on subjects that change between exposures.

The Foevon sensor contains stacked RGB pixels, so it records RGB information in each pixel position, but needs more extreme colour processing than Bayer sensors.

The Achromatic backs don't have IR filter, so they can be used for IR-photography, but would need an IR-cut of filter for visual light. So, they are a compromise.

It would be possible to use more than three colour filters, using a filter wheel. That technique could be useful for exact reproduction.

Best regards
Erik

please explain why for archive and record, they need B&W where color in architectural photography sometimes is major?

BJL

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 12:08:30 PM »

In many situations, a multishot solution may be optimal. The sensor is moved between four exposures, so each pixel is exposed trough all four filters. That would contain all luminance information and also colour. But that would not be workable on subjects that change between exposures.
With this comment, Erik has persuaded me of the futility of using a monochrome back to produce standard color images by taking three images through three primary color filters, as with a color filter wheel system.  Because whenever the camera and subject are motionless enough for that, the four exposure pixel-shift method can also be used with a regular Bayer CFA sensor, and then the same camera or back can also do regular color photography.  Also, in the long run, multi-shot methods will work best in EVF cameras with purely electronic shuttering mode, working without either mirror or shutter movement and so minimizing vibration, to help keep alignment between shots.

The catch is that for now, Hasselblad only offers pixel-shift with a 50MP 44x33 sensor, and Phase One has not yet offered any pixel-shift option. My guess is that Hasselblad will take the next step by offering pixel-shift in a back or camera using the forthcoming Sony 100MP 44x33 sensor.  Maybe in the X system.


The markets I see left for monochrome sensors are:
(1) Actual monochrome photography, for whatever artistic, technical, or poseur motivations.
(2) IR, UV, and other special filtering for technical usages, maybe including using more than three filters each with narrower spectral response, to gather more precise color information.  (One use is forensic analysis of paintings, by analyzing the pigments used, either two aid restoration or detect forgeries.)


P. S. Plenty of self-employed blue-collar tradesmen need well over $50,000 worth of gear, between a truck and tools and such, and the annualized (depreciation) cost is probably less than the wages of a single low-level clerical employee, so I am skeptical of the line that "professional photographers cannot afford to buy this high end MF gear; it is only for rental houses and rich poseurs."
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landscapephoto

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 12:20:17 PM »

The markets I see left for monochrome sensors are:
(1) Actual monochrome photography, for whatever artistic, technical, or poseur motivations.
(2) IR, UV, and other special filtering for technical usages, maybe including using more than three filters each with narrower spectral response, to gather more precise color information.  (One use is forensic analysis of paintings, by analyzing the pigments used, either two aid restoration or detect forgeries.)

For the sensors themselves:
-machine vision, surveillance (where the high resolution is useful and color less important)
-military and scientific uses (forensic, astronomy)
-aerial photography, in particular crops and field mapping in IR bands.
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BJL

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Re: Phase One Announces the IQ3 100MP Achromatic MF Digital Back
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2017, 12:35:23 PM »

For the sensors themselves:
-machine vision, surveillance (where the high resolution is useful and color less important)
-military and scientific uses (forensic, astronomy)
-aerial photography, in particular crops and field mapping in IR bands.
Oh yes: this sensor has a far wider market than just the "artistic" photography that we care about at this site, and this has probably always been the case with sensors larger than 36x24mm.  Some signs of this are that the early DMF backs used 36x36mm square sensors, that the majority of Kodak's >36x24mm sensors came only in monochrome, or came in monochrome first, color later, or came with pixel counts hopelessly low for DMF, but fine for X-rays.

Without the economies of scale from those other markets, DMF gear would probably be substantially more expensive, or even not economically viable.
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