Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Observations on Chroma Optimizer (“CO”) Usage Canon Pro-1000 Printer  (Read 7459 times)

henrikolsen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69

Hi Mark

Big thanks for sharing the Observations on Chroma Optimizer (“CO”) Usage Canon Pro-1000 Printer. Interesting with the firmware update differences.

I have a note regarding

Quote
As we’ll see below, the firmware update lowered the total CO usage for all the jobs but the two remaining issues are why the CO share should vary inversely with paper size, and why there should be any CO usage for matte media.

I put these questions to Canon and received a rather straightforward explanation that clears up these mysteries quite fully. It turns out that for the Pro-1000 model only, because users cannot wipe the platen manually as possible for the other Pro series models, CO is also used for automatic maintenance of the platen after every print regardless of whether the paper being put through the printer is luster/gloss or matte, but the amounts used for maintenance are not proportionate to the size of sheets being printed – i.e. the maintenance volume varies less than proportionately to the size of the sheet being printed, hence the ratio of CO to total ink will be larger on smaller sheets than on larger ones.

Just curious, having done some own observations/measurements, and following others. I understand you used the Canon Accounting Manager for data collection. I was under the impression that CAM didn't include ink used for maintenance operations. Is that not the case, or is the CO maintenance a specific exception? If maintenance ink isn't accounting for in CAM (which I think it isn't), is data supporting Canons maintenance operation found by other means, like precision measurements of CO ink cartridge and/or maintenance cartridge?

--

Regarding the, sometimes big amount of, ink passed to maintenance cartridge for the Pro-1000, I'd like to refer LULA users to these interesting threads, including much appreciated measurements by the user 'sabin'. I have some own comments on these in the getdpi thread as well. Haven't seen those data sets here on LULA, but could have missed them.

http://forum.adv-bulgaria.com/forum/main-forum/фото-видео-и-оптика/4299-canon-imageprograf-pro-1000-maintenance-ink-wastage

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/printing-and-output/58920-canon-pro-1000-waste-tank-contains-188-ink-thats-25-waste-post725248.html#post725248

Regards
Henrik
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Hi Henrik,

Yes, the reporting of CO usage is exceptional insofar as it includes CO usage for the non-printing function mentioned in the article. I only used the Accounting Manager software for making these measurements.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

rwarshaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3

Hi Mark,

Thanks for an interesting article.  A quick question:  My understanding is that the maintenance cycle on the Canon large format printers is for the heads, not the platen.  Am I missing something?
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

The use of CO for platen maintenance is restricted to the Pro-1000. On the Pro-2000/4000 etc. larger printers users can wipe the platen in a way that is not possible in the Pro-1000, hence the in-built routine for the Pro-1000.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

nirpat89

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 143
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel

Find it really odd that they would use costly CO for cleaning purposes.  I am assuming that it is not 100% solvent (there must be some polymer there to change the "chroma" of the print.)  Wouldn't that leave something behind?  Why didn't engineers think about just using plain water/alcohol mixture that is an order of magnitude cheaper.  May be they have some other reasons....

Another question: Does the platen get contaminated after every print?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 11:29:25 AM by nirpat89 »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Find it really odd that they would use costly CO for cleaning purposes.  I am assuming that it is not 100% solvent (there must be some polymer there to change the "chroma" of the print.)  Wouldn't that leave something behind?  Why didn't engineers think about just using plain water/alcohol mixture that is an order of magnitude cheaper.  May be they have some other reasons....

Another question: Does the platen get contaminated every print?

If they were to use anything else a separate mechanism and fluid (that evaporates quickly) would need to have been engineered and built-in to the printer, so perhaps not worthwhile, but that would be a design question you could put to Canon if you were so inclined. Likewise for your second question - I have no idea.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

nirpat89

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 143
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel

Thanks, Mark.  For all the articles on printers as well.  I am in the market for a printer upgrade so trying to do as much homework as possible on the choices out there. 

Another question, if I may:  Does the Canon Pro-1000 also do a head maintenance routine after every print big or small?  I read it somewhere but I am not sure.

Thanks again!

:Niranjan.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 12:30:34 PM by nirpat89 »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Hi Niranjan,

All I know about this is what I said in my review of the Pro-1000 under "Clog Management".
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

henrikolsen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69

Another question, if I may:  Does the Canon Pro-1000 also do a head maintenance routine after every print big or small?  I read it somewhere but I am not sure.

You can get rather detailed information about maintenance routines (ink usage/waste) in the post by 'sabin' linked in the first post in this thread.
Logged

nirpat89

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 143
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel

You can get rather detailed information about maintenance routines (ink usage/waste) in the post by 'sabin' linked in the first post in this thread.

Got it, thanks. 
Logged

sabin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26

I'm waiting 10 more days to power on the printer and measure how much ink will be wasted after 45 days resting. Will report after the test.
Logged

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
    • 500px

I'm really astounded by a claim that you can use ink to maintain a platen.

My CO usage has not been unreasonable.... but the heavy use of colour inks for maintenance while I'm printing 95% B&W is extremely disappointing.
Logged

nirpat89

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 143
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel

I'm really astounded by a claim that you can use ink to maintain a platen.

My CO usage has not been unreasonable.... but the heavy use of colour inks for maintenance while I'm printing 95% B&W is extremely disappointing.

May be because you are not using the colour inks much, it thinks it needs to do more frequent cleanings of those particular heads.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

I'm really astounded by a claim that you can use ink to maintain a platen.

My CO usage has not been unreasonable.... but the heavy use of colour inks for maintenance while I'm printing 95% B&W is extremely disappointing.

How do you know it is using colour inks for maintenance? The Accounting Manager application does not report ink used for maintenance except in the case of CO. It could be using colour inks for B&W printing. Are you using the Accounting Manager? How much colour ink is being used for what size B&W on what paper? And are they toned B&W or neutral-gray B&W?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

sabin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26

Ok guys, good news. After 48 days of not touching the printer (it was left off) I started it and it wasted the usual 3 grams of ink on power on and 3 more grams on the first print. Someone suggested it uses 50 grams or so after 45 days without printing, but maybe this was the case with older firmware.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

Thanks very much for that insight. Most helpful.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

GrahamBy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1575
    • 500px

How do you know it is using colour inks for maintenance?

I weighed the cartridges. I use the "print as B&W" option, so any toning is implicit to that mode.

Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

I weighed the cartridges. I use the "print as B&W" option, so any toning is implicit to that mode.

I don't understand what the expression "implicit to that mode" means. If you simply mean that when you make toned B&W prints, CMYRB inks are used to do the toning, that is correct. But that isn't maintenance, it's printing.

From your weighing of the cartridges I have a question: (1) how many grams ink in aggregate did you see being sacrificed to what probable strength of cleaning? By probable strength of cleaning, it could be lighter or heavier depending on the circumstances in which it was triggered, such as volume of work done before the next maintenance and time between printing sessions. We don't know for sure because all that is controlled under the hood by algorithms and sensors, so this is unfortunately judgmental to us users, but the number of grams ink used is more discernible as you've done. Did you do this exercise once, or did you repeat it several times and if yes, were the results consistent?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

sabin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26

Bad news.

With firmware 2.050 I started a print today and was asked to change the maintenance cart (MC) after that there was about 6 min different noises and I got 58grams in the MC.

Men that hurts!!

I also experienced power loss for several hours as the power grid went off two days ago for the whole night and my USP run out of battery.

So the questions are: Do we get this cleaning activated on every new MC? Do we get this cleaning after power loss, because of reset of internal timers? Will this cleaning happen if we change the MC before requested by the printer?

Next things to test:

1. is to unplug the printer from the wall socket for one night and see if it will get the 58 grams and if not maybe we can add 58g ink price to the price of the MC.

2. Change MC before it is full.

So after all maybe it's not about days off...
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10215
    • http://www.markdsegal.com

............

So after all maybe it's not about days off...

Time off is one variable amongst others that determine maintenance activity. You're asking good questions, but it isn't clear to me whether we can get authoritative answers to exactly how all this works.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up