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Author Topic: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?  (Read 3544 times)

David S

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 06:53:11 PM »

Went from Nikon film to Canon digital and then to Panasonic mirrorless and now to Fuji. Just works better for me.

Dave S

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Rand47

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 03:32:58 PM »

Moved from 5DII to XT-1 and now XT-2.
- no more calibrating lenses for focussing errors
- no longer having to think of losing detail due to mirror slap (moving the mirror up on a DSLR is not always an option)
- I can focus using the electronic viewfinder with 10 stops of ND filter on the front of the lens
- big difference in total system weight (not applicable if you are looking at a 35mm sensor size)
- WYSIWYG. I no longer rely on the histogram.

The usual rules apply though. You need to test drive a camera system to see if the ergonomics will suit you. Does the system have lenses that suit your needs? And some people are driven mad with an electronic viewfinder. I really like it.
David

+1  Echoes my experience pretty much exactly, except that I was shooting Sony FF A-mount bodies prior to moving to Fuji X system.  First time I realized that I was focusing "through" my Lee BigStopper, I freaked out.   ;D
Fuji glass is as good as any I've ever used, and better than most.

I was one of those "you'll take my OVF out of my cold, dead, hands" guys... Now I look through an OVF and my first thought is, "Man this camera has a low IQ.  It doesn't tell me/show me much!"  How times change!

I love the "direct control" of most major parameters of Fuji X.  Rumor has it that Fuji is working on a very high-end X-T type body  . . . will be interesting to see what comes next.

Rand
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rlearner

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2017, 07:27:33 AM »

I went from Nikon to Fuji, and in most situations and very happy with the switch.  Check out my article of a few days ago on this site for more detail:

My Fuji Journey
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JoachimStrobel

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 02:12:59 AM »

I went straight from analog to the A7. The EVF is a love and hate relationship. Playing Piano, one knows that the instrument one plays influences the way one does play - the feedback of the key response, the vibrations.
Now, with an EVF I see a JPEG world. Not the real colors and not the colors I might get after processing.
I also wonder, if an EVF would ever reveal the difference between a 100 and a 1000 USD lens - how could it with such a resolution? Makes these super expensive Sony lenses a bit rediculus.
Any feedback that a great lense gives to a photographer is gone.  I am not in the league to be really concerned. But I assume that an EVF is Ok for me as I have practiced photography enough by now, but am concerned that learning with such an EVF would not have worked out for me.

And I need to say: Nothing beats the feel of an F1 and moving an Fd aperture ring. Should there ever be a kind of digital film capsule for analog cameras, then I will happily sell my Sony.
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Farmer

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 07:32:06 AM »

The Sony EVF (as an example) has over 2,000 DPI resolution - you're not processing that level of detail with a human eye, just as you're not with an OVF. 

The colours you got with on OVF weren't the colours you were going to capture or get post processing, or on film.  Both on OVF and EVF can reveal differences in lens, but not to the extent that the final image will (which is no different to how it was with OVF).  A high quality lens for a 42mp sensor, for example, is still going be a benefit regardless of what you can see in the VF (be it O or E).

Using my GM lenses on my A7Rii is markedly different and better than my older, cheaper, lower performance lenses.  It's different with an EVF, but it's still there.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 07:42:26 AM »

I just dabble, really, so take this with a grain of salt. Went from Pentax/Canon film cameras to a Sony R1 and from there to m4/3s, mostly Olympus. The slow lag in the Sony was not good for any non-stationary subjects, but improvements in that aspect were only ever a matter of electronic design. I mean, camcorders had been used to capture sports for years, so there was never any reason to think that EVFs could not handle fast-moving subject matter. Some systems were ok, Olympus E-3, but the Nikon 1 system showed how mainstream it had become.

As for the ability to "see" accurately through the viewfinder, I have never understood this. The only purpose for me of a viewfinder is to show composition and focus. If that could not be done with colour LCDs/EVFs then a B&W one would do, as far as I am concerned. I don't understand why people think it's important that the viewfinder show accurate colour, can't you just look at the scene itself for that. The only image that matters is the one that reaches the sensor, not the one in the viewfinder. I think that most of those complaints were just discomfort with change. But you'd think that doing away with prism/mirror alignment problems would have meant lower prices than it has. My gut tells me that modern cameras are easier to put together.
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 08:31:59 AM »

I love large OVFs...it is a very alluring connection with the world you see through the lens.  A Hasselblad 500 is a good example of this.  I honestly love looking through them...but I always wished the picture I made actually looked like the viewfinder.  It never does.  The view is like the best HDR image possible, and even film never delivered on that.  I loved Leica's too...but same the reality of the rangefinder was just not the final outcome. 

Once EVFs got good it was really fascinating.  Time and time again shooting with the E-M1mkII, and the E-M1, when set up for minimal lag and virtually no blackout I often get a view of the world that literally matches my eye.  It's impressive to see the image as close to the final as possible, that still looks the way my eye sees.  In very low light it's obviously different, as is in extreme bright conditions...but in average scenes the EVF shows me what I am seeing and what i'm expecting.  This has actually allowed me to shoot better and ensure I am creating exactly what I intended.  It also increases confidence knowing I got the shot I wanted without needing to review.

In terms of color in the viewfinder...I couldn't care less in most situations, and often turn the viewfinder to black and white.  Color will be set by me in post production based on the feel that I want.  That to me is part of the creative process.  I just want fluid lag free connection and the ability to keep up when shooting.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 10:24:46 AM »

There are two kinds of people taking photographs: those who started taking photographs with a camera, and those who did it with a mobile phone. Among the first some prefer the OVF and some the EVF. In the second group all will prefer the EVF.

Regards
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rdonson

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 01:19:26 PM »

And I need to say: Nothing beats the feel of an F1 and moving an Fd aperture ring. Should there ever be a kind of digital film capsule for analog cameras, then I will happily sell my Sony.

I put a LOT of film through my Canon F1.  When I first used a Fuji X-T1 with its analog controls that were easily accessible I fell in love.  I've added a Fuji X-T2 and stopped using my Canon DSLRs. 

There are many reasons why the Fuji-X-T2 appeals to me but a couple really standout for me.  I like low light work and being able to brighten the EVF to suit my needs blows the OVFs I used into the weeds. 

Another thing that really suits me from time to time is the ability to actually see in B&W with the Fuji.  I enjoy setting up one of the B&W film emulations tailored to just the way I like it and then shooting RAW+JPEG.  Seeing in B&W simplifies the ability to see shape, form, lines, tones, etc. for me.  I really enjoy the ACROS emulations. 
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Ron

JoachimStrobel

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2017, 03:14:48 AM »

More then 90% of the time I was disappointed that my photo did not turn out as I had seen it in my OVF (the ratio was better for slides than for prints). So an EVF is a fine thing for sure. It may be similar to the MP3-CD-DvdAudio comparisons, where MP3s sound great at first, but after hours of listening they seem to cause more fatigue than a CD for some people.
I ask myself, if I do have the same enthusiasm for a composition with an EVF compared to an OVF. I notice that I work more mechanically and less enthusiastically with an EVF. That might be a good thing as it rationalises composing and therefore creates repeatable success where shooting-by-enthusiasm can lead to total failure.
Ron, thanks for the hint on the Fuji. Do they not have the split OVF/EVF system too? I will have a look.
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rdonson

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2017, 12:02:58 PM »

Joachim,

The Fuji X-Pro2 is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.  The Fuji X100F is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with a fixed lens.
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Regards,
Ron

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2017, 09:09:01 AM »

Joachim,

The Fuji X-Pro2 is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.  The Fuji X100F is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with a fixed lens.

Its not technically a rangefinder...focus is still contrast based...but the ovf pretends and even shows parallax adjustment in framing.  The "distance" measurements in the manual focus mode have always been a been a nice visual, but rarely good enough to use for real.

The OVF's are nice...but when you have both you find the electronic starts making a lot more sense in many situations.  I started out using the X100 almost completely as an OVF.  Now I rarely if ever use the OVF.  With the XPro it is the same...OVF is nice until the telephoto lenses get used.  Same reason real rangefinders were rarely useful past 90mm.  Even with a magnifier 135mm was difficult. 

Regardless, the OVF/EVF hybrid that fuji does is a slick way to have both.  Now if we could find a way to do that with a through the lens view and keep the size down, that would be amazing. (doubtfully possible...)
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David S

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2017, 10:24:22 AM »

Fuji OVF for shorter primes and EVF for all the rest.

The added benefit is the information available on both EVF and OVF. Surprising something similar is not available (as far as I know) on DSLRs.

Dave S
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JoachimStrobel

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2017, 03:29:13 PM »

One could think of an half transparent mirror. The display could then be a hybrid of a prism and an EVF. As an add on, one could think of a electronic controlled mirror, that becomes fully transparent when needed for low light. This could be packaged as slim as in an A7 to accommodate all lenses...
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luxborealis

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2017, 09:22:53 AM »

Interesting discussion on EVF vs OVF. I'm still on the fence using both D800E and RX10iii (which has a fairly up-to-date Sony EVF, but perhaps not quite as good as their FF mirrorless).

With the EVF, I find it very difficult to see the more subtle changes from rotating a polarizing filter, for example reducing glare from foliage. Often, I need to remove the POL and rotate it in front of my eye then re-install it. Alternatively, I use the arrow mark lined up to the sun, which will provide 100% polarization, but there are times when I want less, and that's where the EVF fails. Furthermore, with the constantly bright EVF, it's easy to forget I have a POL on the front.

Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2017, 09:53:44 AM »

Have we had a response from the OP yet?  This thread has become quite wide-ranging considering they were asking about moving from one full-frame system to another.

Moving from a Canon 5DS to an Olympus EM-1 for instance would be a very different proposition I would think.  I have both and they can not be compared (well they can obviously) for file quality and user experience.  The Canon is way ahead in image quality and far simpler to use when under pressure.  For a location portrait shoot I will often use the Canon with an 85mm 1.8 prime - so easy and quite light enough for an hours work.

But, the Olympus is also a great little camera.  Image quality is good enough most of the time, it is very light (as are the prime lenses), the EVF is very good, the fold-out screen makes shooting from a low angle easy, it is quiet and much more unobtrusive than the Canon.  There are many differences and I've only mentioned a few.  The truth is that any of these newer cameras - and even some of the older ones, can be adapted to almost any sort of shooting.  It just depends on your priorities.

If you could only have one camera then you would need to do some careful thinking.  But my guess is that many here have more than one system.  If you could have three cars - would you not have a variety for different things.  A 4-wheel drive for adventure holidays, a small hybrid for popping out to the store, a Porsche for fun days out on the open road?  Cameras are no different, it's just that many internet forums seem to spend a lot of time trying to determine which is best - when it's "horses for courses".
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2017, 02:22:27 PM »

Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.

You can also zoom the preview image and distinguish details totally out of reach for a OVF.

Regards
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2017, 05:03:28 PM »

You need to have exposure locked when rotating to see the effect otherwise exposure changes make the screen lighten or darken sometimes.  This was always a nightmare on Fuji.  Olympus has been. Easier to work with polarizers in this regard.

If you actually mean the subtle details, as mentioned zooming is the way to go.  I can manually focus an evf way better than an ovf when it comes to specific details.

Interesting discussion on EVF vs OVF. I'm still on the fence using both D800E and RX10iii (which has a fairly up-to-date Sony EVF, but perhaps not quite as good as their FF mirrorless).

With the EVF, I find it very difficult to see the more subtle changes from rotating a polarizing filter, for example reducing glare from foliage. Often, I need to remove the POL and rotate it in front of my eye then re-install it. Alternatively, I use the arrow mark lined up to the sun, which will provide 100% polarization, but there are times when I want less, and that's where the EVF fails. Furthermore, with the constantly bright EVF, it's easy to forget I have a POL on the front.

Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.
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luxborealis

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Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2017, 06:12:50 PM »

You can also zoom the preview image and distinguish details totally out of reach for a OVF.
If you actually mean the subtle details, as mentioned zooming is the way to go.  I can manually focus an evf way better than an ovf when it comes to specific details.

Yes, zooming is the way to go for some details. The details I'm referring to, though, are those that are slightly out of focus that I can't tell are out of focus through an EVF. As well, there have been times when I completely miss an out-of-focus branch or blade of grass that I know I would have seen through an OVF. EVFs are different; it's just a matter of me getting used to their idiosyncrasies after using OVFs for decades.
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