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Author Topic: Skepticism about Climate Change  (Read 213819 times)

pegelli

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1200 on: September 21, 2017, 02:49:24 am »

That study does not square with the Consensus.  You can disregard it.
Scientific consensus is an oxymoron
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pieter, aka pegelli

texshooter

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1201 on: September 21, 2017, 04:12:29 am »

Scientific consensus is an oxymoron

The debate is over.  His Pontiff said so.

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pegelli

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1202 on: September 21, 2017, 04:56:37 am »

The debate is over.  His Pontiff said so.
Did he?
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pieter, aka pegelli

Farmer

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1203 on: September 21, 2017, 07:01:35 am »

I'm reminded of that quote, "There are no bad students, only bad teachers." Anyone know the origin of that quote? Was it Napoleon, perhaps?

Says a lot about people who "do their own research" and are therefore their own teachers, doesn't it?
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Phil Brown

Ray

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1204 on: September 21, 2017, 08:08:51 am »

Says a lot about people who "do their own research" and are therefore their own teachers, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. I wrote 3 very short sentences and you replied with one sentence. That's not a lot. I guess it must be all in your mind.  ;)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1205 on: September 21, 2017, 08:43:02 am »

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-global-warming-paris-climate-agreement-nature-geoscience-myles-allen-michael-grubb-a7954496.html

From the introduction:
Quote from: Nature Geoscience
Hence, limiting warming to 1.5◦C is not yet a geophysical impossibility, but is likely to require delivery on strengthened pledges for 2030 followed by challengingly deep and rapid mitigation. Strengthening near-term emissions reductions would hedge against a high climate response or subsequent reduction rates proving economically, technically or politically unfeasible.


So, what seemed unreachable, may be reachable if the current commitments to reducing CO2 are upheld, according to one study.
That's good news and an encouragement to keep up the hard work of limiting our CO2 emissions.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Ray

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1206 on: September 21, 2017, 09:25:01 am »

From the introduction:

So, what seemed unreachable, may be reachable if the current commitments to reducing CO2 are upheld, according to one study.
That's good news and an encouragement to keep up the hard work of limiting our CO2 emissions.

Cheers,
Bart

Yes, of course. I'm just worried about all those poor people who can't afford the increased cost of electricity as we move from a reliable and cheap form of energy to the less reliable and more expensive renewables.

It doesn't worry me personally. The huge increases in electricity costs in Australia in recent years, due to an incompetent management of the transition from coal to wind and solar, will likely affect Australian exports of manufactured goods, and affect those who are close to the poverty line and who don't have solar panels on their roof, but I'm retired and I do have some government-subsidized solar panels on my roof with a very generous feed-in tariff which more than offsets the rise in electricity prices.

I'm all in favour of technological research and development. But I'm also in favour of increased efficiency and competent management. The 'scare' about CO2 levels could result in a lot of stupid decisions, and already has.

The confusion resulting from the description of CO2 as a pollutant, putting it in the same category as the unhealthy fossil fuel emission of sulphur dioxide, various nitrogen oxides, heavy metals, and particulate carbon, etc, will inevitably result in some wrong decisions.

If you see a coil of rope on the ground, and you imagine it's a poisonous snake, you could be in trouble. You might fall and break your ankle as you run away. ;)

By the way, one of the reasons I referred to the article, is that it shows a degree of honesty from some of the contributors to the IPCC reports, that computer modelling has been wrong in the past. It's a pity Michael Mann can not be as honest.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:47:55 am by Ray »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1207 on: September 21, 2017, 10:22:30 am »

Scientific consensus is an oxymoron

Hallelujah!

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1208 on: September 21, 2017, 11:10:17 am »

Hallelujah!

For those misguided souls who do not understand the meaning of what Pieter said;
Science isn't about consensus, it's about challenging and expanding scientific truths.

That doesn't mean that there can't be consensus on observations, tested hypotheses or experiments, peer-reviewed publications, and thus on scientific truths, but it is not the goal. The goal is to further knowledge and understanding. The Scientific method has proven to be a useful means towards achieving that goal so far.

The concept made easy: Neil Degrasse Tyson - The scientific method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FvSXI2iBcA&feature=youtu.be&t=173

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1209 on: September 21, 2017, 11:35:20 am »

Climate "science" is part science, part art, part black magic. In what exactly proportions, remains to be seen.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1210 on: September 21, 2017, 11:39:28 am »

For those misguided souls who do not understand the meaning of what Pieter said;
Science isn't about consensus, it's about challenging and expanding scientific truths.

That doesn't mean that there can't be consensus on observations, tested hypotheses or experiments, peer-reviewed publications, and thus on scientific truths, but it is not the goal. The goal is to further knowledge and understanding....

For 60+ pages you've been peddling "scientific consensus" as truth. Now you are weaseling out. Better late than never, though.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1211 on: September 21, 2017, 12:13:53 pm »

For 60+ pages you've been peddling "scientific consensus" as truth. Now you are weaseling out. Better late than never, though.

I can only conclude that you really do not get it, that Scientists can reach the same conclusions after conducting independent verification of results from others. There will always be some who reach different conclusions, but those might not survive the test of peer-review (e.g. when the experiment to disprove results is flawed).

Cheers,
Bart
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pegelli

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1212 on: September 21, 2017, 01:55:37 pm »

Hallelujah!
Don't cry victory too early. Consensus on scientific results is not an oxymoron.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1213 on: September 21, 2017, 02:16:36 pm »

I can only conclude that you really do not get it, that Scientists can reach the same conclusions after conducting independent verification of results from others. There will always be some who reach different conclusions, but those might not survive the test of peer-review (e.g. when the experiment to disprove results is flawed).

Cheers,
Bart

This is such a simple idea to understand that the failure to do so can only be viewed as wilful ignorance or a deliberate tactic to waste everyone's time going down silly tangents of meaningless semantic wordplay. What is consensus, what isn't consensus, are scientists advocates of politics if they agree too much, what utter tripe.

My own personal view of these tangents is that it is something I call "generic rebellion". Some people confuse original thinking with disagreement. They are not synonymous. Simply disagreeing with a consensus because it pleases one's ego to be a contrarian does not, on its own, mean a thing. Being generically wary of consensus does not display independence of thought. Most non-insane botanists believe that plants perform photosynthesis; is it therefore a wrong idea since so many believe it?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1214 on: September 21, 2017, 03:32:45 pm »

Climate "science" is part science, part art, part black magic. In what exactly proportions, remains to be seen.
Exactly what parts are you defining as 'art' and 'black magic.'  It's easy to post throw away lines but more difficult to engage in discussion.  I would like to hear your answer.
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texshooter

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1215 on: September 21, 2017, 06:18:40 pm »


Climatology is not as "pure" as some think it is. 

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Farmer

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1216 on: September 21, 2017, 07:11:43 pm »

Exactly what parts are you defining as 'art' and 'black magic.'  It's easy to post throw away lines but more difficult to engage in discussion.  I would like to hear your answer.

The parts he doesn't understand or the parts he made out of straw.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1217 on: September 21, 2017, 07:12:48 pm »

No it doesn't. I wrote 3 very short sentences and you replied with one sentence. That's not a lot. I guess it must be all in your mind.  ;)

Oh, I don't know.  You write volumes here, but say nothing useful.
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Phil Brown

Peter McLennan

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1218 on: September 21, 2017, 07:24:08 pm »

Oh, I don't know.  You write volumes here, but say nothing useful.

:) :) :)
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Ray

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Re: Skepticism about Climate Change
« Reply #1219 on: September 21, 2017, 08:13:43 pm »

Oh, I don't know.  You write volumes here, but say nothing useful.

At least it's wise of you to admit that you don't know. However, the volumes I've written here are relatively small compared with the volumes written in the research papers and articles I've referred to and linked to, in this thread.

In my small volumes I've also expressed my personal view that governments and individuals are often very negligent when they allow the construction of inadequate dwellings and infrastructure in known flood plains and in areas subject to hurricanes, especially the governments who have full access to the historical record of such extreme weather events, and who set the standards of the building codes. You think that's saying 'nothing useful'? Dear me!  :(
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