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Author Topic: What do you folks think about charging clients to download pictures to me?  (Read 3494 times)

dgberg

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It has happened before and has just come up again.
An artist wants me to download several dozen images of there digitally reproduced art work from the photographers web site.
But only wants several prints. I sent the client to my website to upload the photos on my free uploader. Only the ones that are to be printed.
The client keeps sending me back to the photographers website to download a dozen photos or more.
I am extremely busy and have to charge for that time plus I do not want tons of photos on my drive I am not going to print.
I will try explaining my policy and then give my hourly rate for any extra work like this.
Probably should have just done that from the start?

Rainer SLP

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Sure. Why not ? As the old proverb says

" Time is money " If he does not get it sorry for him.

I have some customers they do send me the images " they want to print " (no more) via wetransfer.com and I download them. So there is no additional time used from my side in selecting ...
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Garnick

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Sure. Why not ? As the old proverb says

" Time is money " If he does not get it sorry for him.

I have some customers they do send me the images " they want to print " (no more) via wetransfer.com and I download them. So there is no additional time used from my side in selecting ...

I agree with both approaches, Dan's and this one.  You have to get paid for your time, especially when you are busy and probably getting more $$$ for that work than you would downloading image files.  Your client should learn to do all of this for him/herself, then send you just the ones for printing at any particular time. 

I used Dropbox initially, but I found it rather finicky occasionally, so I now use https://wetransfer.com/ as well.  It's a great site for this use, and at 2GB per down/upload Free, can't beat the price  :)

Gary 
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

pearlstreet

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Sometimes, you have to say "sorry, no, I don't do that." Nothing wrong with that. :-)
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Ernst Dinkla

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I prefer the customer uploads the images as a Tiff with the "original" size set in Photoshop so I do not have to set sizes according a text message. Without resampling used by the customer as it usually degrades the images. They can add white marges or not but have to indicate whether a white margin of what width is needed. WeTransfer I like best. Any miscommunication etc is priced.

On the other hand I am not charging for some services like uploading images I might have archived. New customers less experienced with print services get some slack in billing, usually next time they know the process.

Dan, the photographer involved agrees on this request?  Did the customer provide the link or the photographer? Reading your message that was my first thought, the customer insisting where I would think; why could the photographer not make the selection and upload the images? Whether he charges your customer for it or not, at least that makes it clear he agrees. There could be something fishy about it.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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dgberg

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Don't want you to get the wrong impression. I love to help folks and have spent hundreds of countless hours doing Pro bono work.
It is a passion for me but still a business. My business is printing large and usually in quantities of more then several prints.
One offs are still a big part of my business. I just cannot spend endless hours downloading and culling through numerous photos for a one off print.

Link was provided for the images. The client just wanted me to download a batch for them to look at and then decide which one or two to print.
My preference on a very small project like this is for the client to select your best 2 or 3 images and send only those to me. I am happy to spend the time looking at a small batch like that to choose one or two.
Just not 20 then spending my time looking and helping someone choose. It then comes down to I like these 5 but only print one, what do you think?
Just a miniature vent nothing more.

enduser

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Is it some kind of copyright avoidance by the client, (e.g. "No, it wasn't me that downloaded them".)?
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Ernst Dinkla

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Is it some kind of copyright avoidance by the client, (e.g. "No, it wasn't me that downloaded them".)?

That was what I tried to ask. Maybe binge watching The Good Wife isn't a good idea.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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dgberg

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No copyright avoidance.
The photographer has this website for all the artist digital reproduction work he does for his clients. Each client has a password for downloading images when needed, tiffs for printing and JPEG's for viewing.
I hate to use the word lazy but I think I just did.
The internet makes for a small world so I want to be kind.

Otto Phocus

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If each client has a password, how are you supposed to download the images?

Do you have an account on the website?
Or was the client going to let you use their log-in, which is probably not allowed.

I agree with the previous poster, there has to be a reason why the client wants you to download the image, when the normal business practice is for the client, using their log-in, to download the image.

But I admit that I am not as trusting as some.
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nirpat89

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Link was provided for the images. The client just wanted me to download a batch for them to look at and then decide which one or two to print.

Hi, Dan: It looks to me you should have a separate charge for the editing/consulting work that includes downloading time in addition to the printing charge.  Charge by the hour at a rate he can not not refuse.

:Niranjan.
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Garnick

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Don't want you to get the wrong impression. I love to help folks and have spent hundreds of countless hours doing Pro bono work.
It is a passion for me but still a business. My business is printing large and usually in quantities of more then several prints.
One offs are still a big part of my business. I just cannot spend endless hours downloading and culling through numerous photos for a one off print.

Link was provided for the images. The client just wanted me to download a batch for them to look at and then decide which one or two to print.
My preference on a very small project like this is for the client to select your best 2 or 3 images and send only those to me. I am happy to spend the time looking at a small batch like that to choose one or two.
Just not 20 then spending my time looking and helping someone choose. It then comes down to I like these 5 but only print one, what do you think?
Just a miniature vent nothing more.

This sentence stood out for me - "It is a passion for me but still a business".  In my business I have often sat at the computer with new customers who are rather new to photography in general, let alone digital.  And of course there are also those who have some experience in general but little knowledge of the digital process.  I tend to have 3 or 4 questions for the customer to get an idea of what they actually know and what I should pass along to them to at the very least create an image file of good quality, regardless of the photographic esthetics of the shot.  Little things like "in PS Never leave the Resample box checked in the 'Image Size" dialog unless you have a very good reason for it, or "Never Ever retouch or make any other adjustments to a JPEG file and then re-save as JPEG".  And of course there's always this one - "are you doing all of your image modifications on a laptop, with no display calibration or consistency of any sort"?  There are others as I get a feeling of their knowledge level.  I have two main reasons for asking these questions and offering advice to the customer.  The first of course is to help the customer create higher quality image files, and the second is to hopefully make my job easier when printing those files.  And as stated by Dan, almost all of these sessions are not billable, although hopefully appreciated by the customer. 

From Ernst - "I prefer the customer uploads the images as a Tiff with the "original" size set in Photoshop so I do not have to set sizes according a text message".  I have been caught a number of times communicating with a customer by email with the "specifics" of a job I will be printing, and occasionally a situation in which I am basically creating the image from a number of files sent to me.  In almost every case it becomes an almost total waste of time and effort, since my vision of the project as described is different from that of the customer.  Therefore the first proof is often an exercise in futility, as the customer will then make changes that cannot possible fit in the initial space and aspect ratio, even though an overall size has already been indicated by the customer.  And of course there's that term "Aspect Ratio", something that a person either understands or not, usually not.  The LAST job I did strictly through email communications was the "one from Hell" in many ways.  In all, the project was spread over at least two months before arriving at the printing stage.  You will notice my emphasis on the word 'LAST', which means I will never attempt it again under such conditions.  The frustration alone was enough to call it quits, and never again communicate by text only on a job of that nature.     

Well I imagine I have now overdone the allotted time for a "mini-rant", but I also imagine there might be a few who will be able to identify with this scenario.  I have much more, but dare not continue at this early morning time.

Gary                 

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Gary N.
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Alan Goldhammer

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That was what I tried to ask. Maybe binge watching The Good Wife isn't a good idea.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

We watched it when it was on in 'real time' but when I binge watched it several months ago I found a lot of things that I had missed.  It was one of the rare successes in recent American network television!!!

Alan
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dgberg

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If each client has a password, how are you supposed to download the images?

Do you have an account on the website?
Or was the client going to let you use their log-in, which is probably not allowed.

I agree with the previous poster, there has to be a reason why the client wants you to download the image, when the normal business practice is for the client, using their log-in, to download the image.

But I admit that I am not as trusting as some.
I was given the password to download all the images that were to be considered.

Royce Howland

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I find deciding what to do in these cases depends a bit on understanding where the client is coming from. Is the client genuinely making an effort, but is under some kind of limit of time, skill or whatever on their capability to get things done? Do they understand the value of what they're asking us to do for them, and demonstrate appreciation of it? Then we're often prepared to be more accommodating. Conversely, is the client apparently just willfully ignorant, entitled or lazy and feel they can spend our time like free water to get out of having to do their own part in the specification and production of their order to meet their own (often poorly stated, contradictory or shifting) goals? Then we're more likely going to revert to policy.

So yes, at our shop we do have a policy to charge for project preparation, support & consultations. It's an hourly rate, and that rate isn't all that cheap, especially if it involves one of our team principals. Our primary purpose is to produce great work for our clients; it's what our business is, and what we're primarily paid to do. I.e. our production fees go to the actual production of work. If a client wants to engage but isn't ready to have us start producing work, we're usually more than happy to assist them in various ways if they so wish. But since doing that takes skill, experience, resources & time, and all of that comes away from other clients who in fact are ready to have us produce their work, our default policy is to charge for the up-front assistance.

Of course like any good business, we may waive our own policy at any time, if we feel there's merit in doing so. We'll bend over backwards at minimal or no charge to help a client who has brought us repeated work over the years. We'll do a reasonable initial consult at no charge for a new client with a good-sized project, to establish our credentials and help both parties understand if it's a good match up. Or we'll assist a client who is up against a big deadline through little or no fault of their own; sometimes s*** happens and someone just needs a helping hand out of a jam.

Basically it's about value exchange. Both parties need to appreciate and value what the other is bringing to the business relationship. As long as we feel that's on track, with support fees as a possible part of that equation, we're cool to do what we have to do to produce the work. If the value isn't understood or appreciated, then regardless of the support fees it's probably not a business relationship that's going to work out.

pearlstreet

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Some people want attention...the idea of you going through all their work, choosing the best to print - talking about their work. It might not be about whether they can download or not - they might want the attention the process would bring them.  So you could lose the client by refusing but that might not be a bad thing unless you want to repeat the process every time they want to order.
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Otto Phocus

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I was given the password to download all the images that were to be considered.

And is sharing passwords allowed by the website owners?
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