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Author Topic: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor  (Read 2480 times)

BJL

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2017, 11:42:06 AM »

Don't forget video! This is finally starting to look like the future we were promised many years ago when mirrorless bodies started flooding the market.
Video indeed, for weddings and other events more than sports.

Phone-cameras and mirrorless cameras without EVFs are frequently trashed because "you have to hold them at arm's length and the rear screen is washed out by the sun" well when it comes to video on a DSLR, the exact same applies.
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razrblck

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 12:37:17 PM »

Video indeed, for weddings and other events more than sports.

Phone-cameras and mirrorless cameras without EVFs are frequently trashed because "you have to hold them at arm's length and the rear screen is washed out by the sun" well when it comes to video on a DSLR, the exact same applies.

It's even worse, as many DSLRs don't have the same bright OLED displays as some phones do. Stabilization is also an issue, without IBIS you need extra gear to keep them steady or use a stabilized lens (usually limited in selection and never faster than 2.8).

A lot will come down to battery performance, though. If you can go through a wedding day without worrying about batteries (for stills only, with two batteries in the grip) then Sony has a serious contender in their hands.
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kers

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2017, 04:26:11 PM »

expected price point about 5.250
must be a good camera :o
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2017, 05:22:50 PM »

"Continuous Drive Speed  (approx. max.)*6

AUTO/Electronic Shutter: Continuous shooting: Hi: max. 20 fps, Mid: max. 10fps, Lo: max. 5 fps*7 *8 *9,

Mechanical Shutter: Continuous shooting: Hi: max. 5 fps, Mid: max. 5fps, Lo: max. 2.5 fps

Flash Sync. Speed*3 1/250 sec."



"Specifications and features are subject to change without notice.
*1 When using phase-detection AF, limited lenses will be compatible initially. Expansion is planned by body firmware update.
*2 1/32000 shutter speed is available only in the S and M modes (there are no intermediate settings between 1/16000 and 1/32000). The highest shutter
speed in all other modes is 1/16000.
*3 With compatible Sony external flash
*4 A flash cannot be used when [Shutter Type] is set to [Electronic Shut.]. A flash can be used during continuous shooting with [Shutter Type] set to [Auto].
The mechanical shutter will be used.
*5 With compatible external flash
*6 Varies according to shooting conditions or memory card used.
*7 When A-mount lens is used via mount adopter, the speed of continuous shooting varies depending on the attached lens.
*8 When the Focus Mode is set to AF-C (Continuous AF), the speed of continuous shooting varies depending on the attached lens. See Sony support page
for compatibility details.
*9 During uncompressed RAW shooting, 12 images are shot per second at maximum.
*10 Supports Micro USB compatible device.
*11 (Configuration method/Access method) WPS or manually /infrastructure mode. When connecting to smartphones, the camera can always work as a
base without a wireless access point. (Security: WEP/WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK)
*12 The LCD screen is turned on, shot once every 30 seconds, operate zoom alternately between W and T ends, flash strobe once every two times, turn
power off and on once every ten times.
*13 Continuous movie recording is possible for approximately 29 minutes (limited by product specifications).
*14 Indication recording time, which is defined by repeating the cycle: Power on, start recording, zoom , stand-by and power off.
*15 The total movie recording time. When the limit of the continuous movie recording time (29 minutes) is reached, let the camera continue movie
recording by pressing the MOVIE button again. No other operation such as zoom are performed."



"Support for uncompressed 14-bit RAW format

For RAW recording, 14-bit RAW output and 16-bit image processing help preserve maximum detail and produce images of the highest quality with rich tonal gradations. The 14-bit RAW (Sony ARW) format ensures optimal quality for later image adjustment (via Image Data Converter or other software)."




The shutter is rated for 500,000 cycles. @ Max of 5 FPS it is less stressed than a pro DSLR...

The Max electronic shutter for A mount adapted lenses is said to be 10 FPS. The adapter will need a firmware update for that

Dual card slots but one is the slower UHS-I type

The magnesium alloy body has dust and moisture resistance around most of its controls and buttons, albeit not guaranteed to be 100 percent dust and moisture proof

No Sony S-log in video

So really will only give full performance on specific E Mount lenses. Given the lens selection it is not going to bother Canon or Nikon at the 1DX ii and D5 level...

Body wise it is still A7 sized which is pushing it towards those willing and able to give up a chunky camera suited to big pro lenses. The grip to lens barrel finger clearance is poor

It is chipping away at the Canon and Nikon for DSLR users that may benefit from things like the silent shooting, full focus point spread, balanced low level AF and Metering which both have the same low light spec

I really get the feeling SONY are over performing in the original market they were targeting. They still have not produced a body and dare I say lens mount, if the thin flimsy ones that were on the original A7's are still part of the design, to take on Canon and Nikon

For those lucky enough not to need bulky tough pro gear, the specs of this new Camera are amazing. Shame about the price. It may be a limited market for these reasons...





« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 05:26:42 PM by Bernard ODonovan »
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hogloff

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 08:03:18 PM »

Yes, that was what I was implying, fast action photogs in general, being sports or wildlife.

Very small market that is declining. It highly visible because we all watch sports and see the photogs, but overall that market is puny compared to weddings or portraits. I can totally see why Sony has left that market to others.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 10:28:51 PM »

The a9 will be available on 5/26 in Japan.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2017, 06:02:26 AM »

There seems to be a fair head of excitement about this body, but I found Hugh Brownstone's article interesting.  I am a keen amateur and have had images published.  I also take images for a local magazine.  I have a Canon 5D3 with 3 lenses inc the 100-400 Mk2, and a Fuji x-t1 with 2 zooms and 2 primes.  To me this is a considerable investment and it meets my needs.  In the case of Sony, the rate at which new bodies are introduced makes me wonder how people feel who have invested in one, only to find a newer, 'better' body arrive very quickly.  I am not going to upgrade to a Fuji x-t2 nor a Canon 5D4 as I cannot justify the cost even allowing for trade-in.  As for going to Sony, I would have to use an adapter and my Canon lenses, and I am not sure I am convinced how well that would work.

If others feel as I do, at whom is this camera aimed?  Will professional photographers, who must already have one or more bodies and high spec (expensive) glass, be able or want to justify the spend?  At the rate new bodies are being churned out, I am amazed that the development costs can be recouped.

Am I a lone voice in the wilderness, wondering where all the people are that can keep paying frequently for upgrades?

Jonathan
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Farmer

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2017, 07:30:46 AM »

I'm a keen amateur.  I bought the A7rii not that long ago.  I'm *very* excited by the A9.  I will probably wait about 6 months and then either grab one or see what else might have come out.  Why?  Because the A7rii gives me the resolution that I wanted and the A9 would give me the speed that I want.  For most things I do, either would do so they function as backups, too.

I'm not worried about frequent upgrades.  I think it's much better to have frequent major updates then infrequent minor ones.  Give me everything you have when you have it - don't either just dribble it out when you feel like it or, worse still, don't innovate.  Nope, go for it - spam it out - many, huge advances  that's what I want to see and then I will buy in when it suits me (i.e. I like it and I can afford it and I think it's worthwhile).
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Phil Brown

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 08:13:05 AM »

There seems to be a fair head of excitement about this body, but I found Hugh Brownstone's article interesting.  I am a keen amateur and have had images published.  I also take images for a local magazine.  I have a Canon 5D3 with 3 lenses inc the 100-400 Mk2, and a Fuji x-t1 with 2 zooms and 2 primes.  To me this is a considerable investment and it meets my needs.  In the case of Sony, the rate at which new bodies are introduced makes me wonder how people feel who have invested in one, only to find a newer, 'better' body arrive very quickly.  I am not going to upgrade to a Fuji x-t2 nor a Canon 5D4 as I cannot justify the cost even allowing for trade-in.  As for going to Sony, I would have to use an adapter and my Canon lenses, and I am not sure I am convinced how well that would work.

If others feel as I do, at whom is this camera aimed?  Will professional photographers, who must already have one or more bodies and high spec (expensive) glass, be able or want to justify the spend?  At the rate new bodies are being churned out, I am amazed that the development costs can be recouped.

Am I a lone voice in the wilderness, wondering where all the people are that can keep paying frequently for upgrades?

Jonathan

I sympathise with this problem. For many years I used Canon cameras. The Canon 5D was the first affordable full-frame I bought, which I was generally pleased with, apart from noticeable banding and noise in the deep shadows.

When Nikon introduced its first full-frame, the D3, which clearly had lower noise than the 5D at low ISOs but not so much at higher ISOs (1600 and beyond), I couldn't justify the cost of a new camera and new lenses.

However, I was seduced into buying the Nikkor 12-24/F2.8 zoom because an adapter was available so I could use the lens with my Canon 5D.
Unfortunately, the adapter was not as good as I had hoped and limited the flexibility of the system.

When the Nikon D700 was introduced, which was basically a cheaper version of the D3, I decided that my rather expensive and excellent quality Nikkor 14-24 zoom deserved a fully compatible camera body. The D700 body was cheaper than the lens.

For a while I used the two brands, the Canon 50D cropped format with a number of Canon lenses, and my D700 with 14-24 zoom. As Nikon continued to improve the fundamental specs of its sensors, I couldn't resist buying the D7000 then the D7100, the D800E, then the D810, plus a few Nikkor lenses, so it's a long time since I used my Canon equipment, although it's still sitting on my shelves.

I'd be very reluctant to get sucked into a 3rd brand such as Sony, especially considering all the problems I've read about the adapters for Canon and Nikkor lenses.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 09:37:39 AM »

There seems to be a fair head of excitement about this body, but I found Hugh Brownstone's article interesting.  I am a keen amateur and have had images published.  I also take images for a local magazine.  I have a Canon 5D3 with 3 lenses inc the 100-400 Mk2, and a Fuji x-t1 with 2 zooms and 2 primes.  To me this is a considerable investment and it meets my needs.  In the case of Sony, the rate at which new bodies are introduced makes me wonder how people feel who have invested in one, only to find a newer, 'better' body arrive very quickly.  I am not going to upgrade to a Fuji x-t2 nor a Canon 5D4 as I cannot justify the cost even allowing for trade-in.  As for going to Sony, I would have to use an adapter and my Canon lenses, and I am not sure I am convinced how well that would work.

If others feel as I do, at whom is this camera aimed?  Will professional photographers, who must already have one or more bodies and high spec (expensive) glass, be able or want to justify the spend?  At the rate new bodies are being churned out, I am amazed that the development costs can be recouped.

Am I a lone voice in the wilderness, wondering where all the people are that can keep paying frequently for upgrades?

Jonathan

You are not a lone voice, I can join you:) I have never ceded to the allure and swan song of getting the latest and greatest. I always consider potential changes and associated cash outlay very carefully. I used Canon EOS for 20 years, got my first digital camera in 2004 (Powershot Pro1), first DSLR in 2009 (5DMKII). Finally, in February 2015 moved to Sony A7, to save weight and size, for what I like to shoot. Matter of fact, I just got another Sony A7 (the original one) for a very good price, it does all I want for landscapes on a tripod.

My advice: get what you need, and stick to it until you really need to upgrade. As for the Sony A9, no doubt it is a valiant move from Sony, they must consider that the tech is finally mature to challenge the big boys. Of course the camera is being hyped all over the photo news, as it generates clicks... once the dust is settled, we shall see.

Finally, since you mention the article posted today about the A9: I always take with a large grain of salt a piece that starts by saying that the "DSLR is dead, and so on..." I mean, It gets repeated so often, maybe someday someone will actually be right... Today, I still see tourists and lots of pros using DSLRs... here in Lisbon, Portugal, I must be one of the few guys using an A7... or a MILC, for that matter. All I see are entry level DSLRs.

mecrox

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2017, 04:41:47 PM »

There seems to be a fair head of excitement about this body, but I found Hugh Brownstone's article interesting.  I am a keen amateur and have had images published.  I also take images for a local magazine.  I have a Canon 5D3 with 3 lenses inc the 100-400 Mk2, and a Fuji x-t1 with 2 zooms and 2 primes.  To me this is a considerable investment and it meets my needs.  In the case of Sony, the rate at which new bodies are introduced makes me wonder how people feel who have invested in one, only to find a newer, 'better' body arrive very quickly.  I am not going to upgrade to a Fuji x-t2 nor a Canon 5D4 as I cannot justify the cost even allowing for trade-in.  As for going to Sony, I would have to use an adapter and my Canon lenses, and I am not sure I am convinced how well that would work.

If others feel as I do, at whom is this camera aimed?  Will professional photographers, who must already have one or more bodies and high spec (expensive) glass, be able or want to justify the spend?  At the rate new bodies are being churned out, I am amazed that the development costs can be recouped.

Am I a lone voice in the wilderness, wondering where all the people are that can keep paying frequently for upgrades?

Jonathan

You are not a lone voice at all.

There's no need to pay full whack for good kit. There is a mountain of nearly new, refurb, on sale and used equipment out there, often quite new and of superb quality. Much of it will provide good service for years, especially the lenses.

The new Sony A9 is probably much more about the sensor than anything else. My understanding is that it is a new design which brings new capabilities. There is more processing power on the sensor itself and in time as Sony develop and perfect the tech that will bring things like EVFs not blacking out, very sophisticated AF, improved video and frame rates, and much less or even no need for a mechanical shutter. The A9 offers a taste of that. In say 5 years' time, many new cameras will have it. So call it a glimpse of things to come for "only" $4500. The cost of developing the sensor technology is probably huge but the cost of developing the A9 body is probably peanuts by comparison. The real money to make doesn't come from the cameras but from the sensors and the IP. I guess some of Sony's competitors may be a little worried about whether Sony will let them have a taste of the stuff, though. The rest of current A9 coverage is just the internet hype machine in overdrive, I think.

I've no real need for any of this with what I do. Nice to know it will eventually turn up, perhaps, but it doesn't change anything here. If I buy anything over the next year, it will probably be secondhand Nikon or something and good for years of enjoyment.

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Re: New SONY α9 featuring full-frame stacked CMOS sensor
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2017, 09:32:34 PM »

You are implying Pro sports photographers right. For everything else like weddings, portraits, photo journalists, event photography...these are already being shot by pro's and the A9 will just step up their game.

Shooting events like plays or speeches or wedding in total silence will be a game changer.

I shoot headshots and corporate events. If this focuses well on speakers and such, with the silent shutter, I'll switch from Canon. I don't need lenses longer than 70-200. The lenses are more $ than the Canon equivalent; however, not a lot considering the expected life. The current G and GM line has enough for me. I can rent a Canon body and 17 TSE as needed.

I rented the OM D M1 MII and had too much trouble with focusing at conferences. I shot four events (about 30 hours of photo coverage with Canon side-by-side to OM) with the OM system to really try and make it work. Was not as impressed with ISO 3200 as some reviewers. The black out was hard to get used to as well.

Planning on renting the a9 to test it out.

Wedding and event photographers I've spoken with this week are very interested due to the silent shutter with no blackout. Most of us are not concerned there will be any issues with Sony sensors.

What I want in a system is dual cards, decent high ISO (up to 3200 - more is a bonus), fast and accurate focus on single point, quiet, and zoom lenses from 16mm to 200mm, plus a few primes. Sony covers the 16-35 (I use the 17-40 f4 so no big deal on aperture), 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 decently. Plus, I'd have IBIS. I've read the DxO lens review as well as the Lensrental review and I think for most photographers, we'll not see any quality difference between Canon and Sony lenses. It will take a while to get used to the opposite direction of zoom ring rotation.

The a9 is a lot more $ than a 5DIV, so it better focus fast and accurate, because $ 1000 is significant for silent shutter and IBIS.

It would have been really cool if the OM system worked since it is smaller and cheaper. I may try it again or maybe a Sony - OM combo (assuming the Sony works for me).
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