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Author Topic: A bizarre copyright claim  (Read 2934 times)

PeterAit

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A bizarre copyright claim
« on: April 13, 2017, 10:26:36 am »

Not photo-related, but still interesting.

Arturo Di Medica, the sculptor of the "charging bull" statue on Wall Street, is in a huff. An investment firm recently installed a life-size statue of a young girl standing defiantly in front of the bull, facing it down. Called Fearless Girl, it is meant to symbolize the resilience and strengths of women. Now Di Medica is claiming copyright and trademark infringement for some truly strange and, IMO, specious reasons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/wall-street-charging-bull-arturo-di-modica-new-york-artistic-copyright-violate-fearless-girl-statue-a7679706.html

This seems akin to me selling you a photo which you hang in your house, and then objecting to another artist's photo that you hang on the opposite wall.
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Jim Metzger

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 10:44:23 am »

"This seems akin to me selling you a photo which you hang in your house, and then objecting to another artist's photo that you hang on the opposite wall."

My sentiments exactly.

Add to that, Di Medica installed his piece without proper permits in the dead of night. So this is really like someone breaking into your house, hanging artwork you didn't buy or commission and then complaining when you put your own piece in next to it.

I think the "girl" adds a dimension to the bull sculpture that was missing before. It is our modern day "David and Goliath".
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JoeKitchen

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 11:08:40 am »

"This seems akin to me selling you a photo which you hang in your house, and then objecting to another artist's photo that you hang on the opposite wall."

My sentiments exactly.

Add to that, Di Medica installed his piece without proper permits in the dead of night. So this is really like someone breaking into your house, hanging artwork you didn't buy or commission and then complaining when you put your own piece in next to it.

I think the "girl" adds a dimension to the bull sculpture that was missing before. It is our modern day "David and Goliath".

Personally, I have no problem with the girl statue, however I do have to agree with Di Medica with regards to that the girl statue completely changes the meaning of the bull statue. 

The bull was never about male dominance, which is what the girl statue suggests that it is, but more so that America is the bull, pushing the economy up.  I do not think that that is the right spot for the girl statue because of this, but I do not think Di Medica really has any legal president to stand on though.

On top of that, I was kind of surprise that there is no bear statue nearby.  I mean after all, it is Wall Street, home of the bulls and the bears; I naturally though a bear would be near by too. 
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 02:38:00 pm »

Good God! More rich people problems that make me want to puke!
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 02:39:11 pm »

The girl needs a matador's cape.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 02:49:22 pm »

The girl needs a matador's cape.

But that would promote animal cruelty! ;)

JoeKitchen

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 06:54:31 pm »

The girl needs a matador's cape.

Don't forget the sword! ... maybe with some red paint dripping off. 
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pearlstreet

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 07:28:46 pm »

What if someone made a statue of a guy in a raincoat flashing people and put it in front of the Mona Lisa? I don't blame the artist for objecting.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 06:47:59 am »

That does raise some interesting questions.

I feel that if another artist were to sculpt the figure of a girl and place that on the bull, that would be a clear alteration of the original artists artistic intent.  Placing the same sculpture of the girl 100 meters away from the bull, would equally clearly not have an effect on the artistic intent.  So where is the line drawn?  How close is "too close"  At what point does another piece of art start to affect the impression of the first piece of art?

Does it even matter?  As previously posted, one artist does not have control over what art is or is not displayed next to his or her piece of art.  However, in that context, the two pieces of art are intended to be two individual pieces that happen to be displayed adjacent to each other.

But, in the case of the bull vs girl, the statue of the girl was intended not to stand alone as its own piece of art, but was specifically made and placed to form a new relationship with the already existing statue of the bull.

This, in effect and by design, changes how the original bull art form may be interpreted and changed without the original artists permission.

Does that matter?

Does an artist have a reasonable expectation that once the piece of art is purchased/delivered that the original intent of the artist must be maintained?

Does the artist of the bull have a case that with the addition of the girl, a brand new combined piece of art is now created (bull + girl) and that could be construed as copying the art of the bull into another piece of art?

Can I take any one of any of your photographs, take two of my photographs and form a triptych and call it my own?  Does it change if I take two of someone else's photographs and add one of mine to make a new triptych and call it my own creation?

Where does one piece of art end and another one start?  Especially when considering the three-dimensional aspect of sculptures.

I can see and appreciate both sides of this issue.
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kers

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 08:47:14 am »

Personally, I have no problem with the girl statue, however I do have to agree with Di Medica with regards to that the girl statue completely changes the meaning of the bull statue. 

The bull was never about male dominance, which is what the girl statue suggests that it is, but more so that America is the bull, pushing the economy up.  I do not think that that is the right spot for the girl statue because of this, but I do not think Di Medica really has any legal president to stand on though.

On top of that, I was kind of surprise that there is no bear statue nearby.  I mean after all, it is Wall Street, home of the bulls and the bears; I naturally though a bear would be near by too.

+1
the girl statue and Bull statue are becoming one statue.

But I personally have problems with the copyright of the Eifeltower. As i heard you cannot make a picture of it and sell it.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 09:04:34 am »


But I personally have problems with the copyright of the Eifeltower. As i heard you cannot make a picture of it and sell it.

Last I checked, I believe it is the lighting that is copyrighted.  To the best of my knowledge, you can take a daytime image, but a dusk/night shot is the issue. 
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 11:01:54 am »

Last I checked, I believe it is the lighting that is copyrighted.  To the best of my knowledge, you can take a daytime image, but a dusk/night shot is the issue.
The copyright laws have grown so bloated and bizarre that it's no longer funny.  This might help:  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter  Certainly taking a picture of the tower is permitted. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 12:04:36 pm »

The copyright laws have grown so bloated and bizarre that it's no longer funny.  This might help:  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter  Certainly taking a picture of the tower is permitted.

Yes, you can take a picture, but, as always, it's the usage that gets you in trouble. 

The US copyright laws are pretty straightforward and easy to understand, however we, through treaties, must respect other countries' copyright laws. 

France has become pretty ridiculous. 

By USA laws, anything that is utilitarian can not be copyrighted, like architectural lighting or fonts or clothes or furniture, all of which are common utilities.  This is not the case in France.  A few years ago, an advertiser got sued for using a french brand of furniture in an advertising image. 

It's gotten bizarre. 

But it is hard to know where to draw the line.  The Centennial Indians have been trying for years to get their Mardi Gras costumes copyrighted so they could make money off of the clothing, instead of the many photographers.  Personally I have to side with the current law; although it's a disappointing situation, allowing clothing to be copyrighted would open a can of worms for photographers. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 12:08:21 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Otto Phocus

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 01:55:36 pm »

Section 106 of the copy right circular has context in this issue

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106a

To view the applicable law
17 U.S. Code § 106A - Rights of certain authors to attribution and integrity

In part

"subject to the limitations set forth in section 113(d), shall have the right—
(A) to prevent any intentional distortion, mutilation, or other modification of that work which would be prejudicial to his or her honor or reputation, and any intentional distortion, mutilation, or modification of that work is a violation of that right, ..."

I wonder if a case could be made that the formulation of the composite (bull + girl) would fall under intentional distortion of the original work?

Should be an interesting case to follow.
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LesPalenik

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Re: A bizarre copyright claim
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 04:28:55 am »

Quote
The bull was never about male dominance, which is what the girl statue suggests that it is, but more so that America is the bull, pushing the economy up.  I do not think that that is the right spot for the girl statue because of this, but I do not think Di Medica really has any legal president to stand on though.

Although this situation is unprecedented, Arturo Di Modica has a legal president.  ;)
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