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Author Topic: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made  (Read 3678 times)

dchew

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2017, 10:24:34 AM »

I too do not have a problem with how quickly the IQ100 zooms into 100%. Seems very fast to me.

I do think Canon still implements the best Liveview. The IQ100 screen lacks something, either sharpness in the rendered image or sharpness of the screen itself. I also wish I could enter a default f-stop like f/11, instead of having to scroll through them from f/4 or whatever every time (technical camera).

I think the size of the screen is fine. The level feature is terribly inaccurate. Constantly recalibating mine to the point I've given up using it.

Dave
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Hasselblad

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2017, 08:48:46 AM »

Hi guys,

Thank you for your feedback and pointing out the issue with colour accuracy on the H6D display. This particular display issue is now improved and additional functionality is introduced with today's H6D-50c and H6D-100c firmware update.

Added functionality and main improvements for H6D Compared to v1.12.1:

• Focus peaking in live view
• Histogram in grip display
• Visual Overexposure warning
• Technical camera (Flash Sync and Pinhole)
• Full support for HTS
• Support for Film Magazine HM 16-32
• Video poster frame in Browse mode
• Reduced power consumption in tethered mode
• Service menu: Image sequence counter reset
• Service menu: Factory reset
• About menu: “Usage” shows shutter count for lens
• Improved contrast level in video
• LCD color improvements
• Language updates

You can find more information and the latest firmware file under "DOWNLOADS" at http://www.hasselblad.com/h6-system/h6d-100c

Kind regards,
The Hasselblad team

« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 09:08:32 AM by Hasselblad »
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Tarkowsky

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2017, 12:49:43 PM »

Hi guys,

Thank you for your feedback and pointing out the issue with colour accuracy on the H6D display. This particular display issue is now improved and additional functionality is introduced with today's H6D-50c and H6D-100c firmware update.

Added functionality and main improvements for H6D Compared to v1.12.1:

• Focus peaking in live view
• Histogram in grip display
• Visual Overexposure warning
• Technical camera (Flash Sync and Pinhole)
• Full support for HTS
• Support for Film Magazine HM 16-32
• Video poster frame in Browse mode
• Reduced power consumption in tethered mode
• Service menu: Image sequence counter reset
• Service menu: Factory reset
• About menu: “Usage” shows shutter count for lens
• Improved contrast level in video
• LCD color improvements
• Language updates

You can find more information and the latest firmware file under "DOWNLOADS" at http://www.hasselblad.com/h6-system/h6d-100c

Kind regards,
The Hasselblad team

The yellow-green cast is still there cause nothing has changed in term of White color temperature of the screen which is still set at around 5600K and the off Duv value hasn't changed at all as you may see in the attached picture.

Mostly what's been improved is the tonal scale which grew by approximately  3 stops.
Now screen previews look more softer due to the lower general contrast and that makes the yellow-green cast more acceptable so to speak.
I wish they could also improve the Duv value that create the yellow-green cast but I guess that is the natural lcd-screen characteristic and changing it might even mean a lower quality.
 
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BAB

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2017, 04:02:52 PM »

Also the focus peaking only works in normal view not magnified view.

Are you saying the LCD picture is softer meaning the focus isn't as sharp as it was throughout the screen image? I see a bit of improvement in incandescent light.
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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2017, 04:30:04 PM »

Mr. Tarkowsky,

To work around this issue for previews, just take a colorchecker passport with the hue squares, and play with setting wb on the magenta/green hue squares until you neutralize the tint. Later you can make a larger printout of this colour with absolute rendering to create own "viewing wb" card.

I'm astonished our resident heritage colour expert Doug hasn't suggested this, usually he's one of the most helpful members here.

Edmund

« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 04:42:08 PM by eronald »
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Tarkowsky

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2017, 07:48:41 PM »

Mr. Tarkowsky,

To work around this issue for previews, just take a colorchecker passport with the hue squares, and play with setting wb on the magenta/green hue squares until you neutralize the tint. Later you can make a larger printout of this colour with absolute rendering to create own "viewing wb" card.

I'm astonished our resident heritage colour expert Doug hasn't suggested this, usually he's one of the most helpful members here.

Edmund

Mr, Edmond,
Although your workaround seems interesting at first sight it still involved a lot of work that is to carry around the colorchecker and use it to find the right WB for the scene compensating for the screen off calibration.
I already came up with a simple idea that works perfectly.
Since the white screen coordinates in Adobe 1998 RGB space  R=243 G=255 B=216 in L*ab (98,-11,17) are not neutral we have to find the right adhesive CC filter to put on screen that will neutralize the white.
L*ab (98,11,-17) which correspond to a light magenta should do the work.
I don't have that precise CC filter at home but I have tried to put on the screen the old CC10M I used to work with in the old analogic era and it seems to work.
The Duv value now is almost perfect and the CRI Ra has increased by 10 unit which is still low for any standard.
In the future I will try to get the perfect CC filter so I could get a better CRI Ra but for the time being I am happy with my workaround.
No worry about loosing the touchscreen ability. It still works  even if  you put a CC filter on it.


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »

So you can now use an H6D-100c on a technical camera?

I second Doug's question, a solution was promised to be delivered at the same time as this firmware update regarding tech camera support.

I have not seen any mention thereof in the communication surrounding this, where do we stand?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2017, 08:08:46 PM »

Mr, Edmond,
Although your workaround seems interesting at first sight it still involved a lot of work that is to carry around the colorchecker and use it to find the right WB for the scene compensating for the screen off calibration.
I already came up with a simple idea that works perfectly.
Since the white screen coordinates in Adobe 1998 RGB space  R=243 G=255 B=216 in L*ab (98,-11,17) are not neutral we have to find the right adhesive CC filter to put on screen that will neutralize the white.
L*ab (98,11,-17) which correspond to a light magenta should do the work.
I don't have that precise CC filter at home but I have tried to put on the screen the old CC10M I used to work with in the old analogic era and it seems to work.
The Duv value now is almost perfect and the CRI Ra has increased by 10 unit which is still low for any standard.
In the future I will try to get the perfect CC filter so I could get a better CRI Ra but for the time being I am happy with my workaround.
No worry about loosing the touchscreen ability. It still works  even if  you put a CC filter on it.

Mr. Tarkowsky,

 you are right: why sweat when hardware can do the job? Bravo!
 maybe you could s$ll your solution as the perfect $500 Hasselblad screen protector?

Edmund
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Tarkowsky

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2017, 08:24:45 PM »

Mr. Tarkowsky,

 you are right: why sweat when hardware can do the job? Bravo!
 maybe you could s$ll your solution as the perfect $500 Hasselblad screen protector?

Edmund

It would be a great idea  so one day I could get rich enough to buy a XF 100 but alas I am not good at business so I guess I will stick with Hasselblad.
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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2017, 08:46:19 PM »

It would be a great idea  so one day I could get rich enough to buy a XF 100 but alas I am not good at business so I guess I will stick with Hasselblad.

Too bad that subliming to Phase must remain a vaporous dream. :)

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2017, 09:27:44 PM »

I second Doug's question, a solution was promised to be delivered at the same time as this firmware update regarding tech camera support.

I just got the answer from Hasselblad Japan. Please refer to pages 164-168 of the latest manual linked below. Power is provided through the DC input socket from an external power bank. One type is confirmed to have been tested but others should work also.

There are 2 modes:
- Flash sync mode for lenses equiped with a flash sync port (the lens controls speed and aperture)
- pinhole mode for lenses not equiped with one (the back controls the shutter speed and triggers the capture on screen)

http://static.hasselblad.com/2016/04/H6D-User-Manual-v1.4-170418.pdf

Sounds like a workable solution to me.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:02:19 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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torger

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2017, 10:14:36 AM »

I thought having totally wrong color on the image preview on the screen was a fine Hasselblad tradition? On my Hasseblad H4D-50 the preview is very warm (red tint). I don't bother though as I don't judge colors on the back screen, and I think that most MFD users have considered an accurate screen to be unimportant. AFAIK Hassy's screens on all models for as long as there's been back screens have been significantly off in terms of temp/tint, and noone really cared.

I guess it's just now when users are used to what's available in the higher end 135 formats with very accurate live view renderings and exposure simulations that it's become a "want" also for MFD...
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eronald

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2017, 01:05:10 PM »

I thought having totally wrong color on the image preview on the screen was a fine Hasselblad tradition? On my Hasseblad H4D-50 the preview is very warm (red tint). I don't bother though as I don't judge colors on the back screen, and I think that most MFD users have considered an accurate screen to be unimportant. AFAIK Hassy's screens on all models for as long as there's been back screens have been significantly off in terms of temp/tint, and noone really cared.

I guess it's just now when users are used to what's available in the higher end 135 formats with very accurate live view renderings and exposure simulations that it's become a "want" also for MFD...

It looks like MF users have traditionally been willing to tolerate anything in the name of having an "exclusive" product. Maybe those days are indeed over.

Edmund
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Tarkowsky

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2017, 06:43:38 PM »

I thought having totally wrong color on the image preview on the screen was a fine Hasselblad tradition? On my Hasseblad H4D-50 the preview is very warm (red tint). I don't bother though as I don't judge colors on the back screen, and I think that most MFD users have considered an accurate screen to be unimportant. AFAIK Hassy's screens on all models for as long as there's been back screens have been significantly off in terms of temp/tint, and noone really cared.

I guess it's just now when users are used to what's available in the higher end 135 formats with very accurate live view renderings and exposure simulations that it's become a "want" also for MFD...

Before the H6D-100c I used to have a H4D-60 which mounted the same screen as your H4D-50 and I never had any problem with its magenta cast cause the tonal range was quite wide (7 stops) but of course you can't push your luck any longer.There are limits to tonal and color inaccuracy and the new H6D-100c has gone beyond any tolerance limit.
The tonal  range was down to 4 stops and the yellow-green cast was much stronger than the pale H4D-50 magenta cast.
The fact that with the new firmware Hasselblad has increased the tonal range (+3 stops) makes the new H6D-100c screen look at least like your old H4D-50 in term of DR.
For $32995 I guess we are allowed to ask the same quality of old Hassy models or that is asking too much?
In the attached graphs you can compare colorimetric data from the two different screens (before new firmware came out).
It's easy to see that the old H4D-60 screen (and your H4D-50 as well) has a much better color accuracy (CRI Ra =92 vs CRI Ra = 67) and the magenta cast is almost acceptable.
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JJon

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2017, 11:53:02 AM »

Hey - welcome Hasselblad.


Hi guys,

Thank you for your feedback and pointing out the issue with colour accuracy on the H6D display. This particular display issue is now improved and additional functionality is introduced with today's H6D-50c and H6D-100c firmware update.

Added functionality and main improvements for H6D Compared to v1.12.1:

• Focus peaking in live view
• Histogram in grip display
• Visual Overexposure warning
• Technical camera (Flash Sync and Pinhole)
• Full support for HTS
• Support for Film Magazine HM 16-32
• Video poster frame in Browse mode
• Reduced power consumption in tethered mode
• Service menu: Image sequence counter reset
• Service menu: Factory reset
• About menu: “Usage” shows shutter count for lens
• Improved contrast level in video
• LCD color improvements
• Language updates

You can find more information and the latest firmware file under "DOWNLOADS" at http://www.hasselblad.com/h6-system/h6d-100c

Kind regards,
The Hasselblad team
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BAB

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Re: Hasselblad H6D-100c LCD screen: the worst ever made
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2017, 01:23:42 PM »

The camera histogram doesn't show the real untouched R,G,B raw channels as RawDigger can do but it shows the raw channels through the eye of a raw converter (Phocus in this case).
Hasselblad assumes that you will process the raw file with Phocus which will applies some conversions to the original raw file.
So what you see in the camera it's nothing else that the histogram you'll see when Phocus open the raw file.
As you may know when Phocus open a raw file it applies some default conversion to it , conversion which is  unique to each raw converter.
Adobe Camera RAW will perform a totally different conversion.
Attached there is a picture that according to RawDigger Histogram has no highlights clipped values  but the H6D-100c in camera histogram show that the Blue channel has been clipped.Same clipping happens in Phocus (most of the sky is clipped).
But if one opens the same raw file in ACR there  is no clipping at all and the histogram is more similar to  RawDigger histogram situation.
Phocus in its conversion must have stretched the highlights to the limit.
So with very high DR image I would give ACR a try and drop Phocus.

the issue is when making the image in high DR the green channel shows blown out when in fact its not, besides that the red and blue channels are underexposed. so ACR is an after-the -fact fix. The main objective is to balance the RGB channels at the time of capture, I have added a CC40Mfilter to hold back the green channel this method has been successful. My gripe is why does not Hasselblad offer a option to color balance in camera as they do in Phocus?
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