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Author Topic: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)  (Read 11577 times)

Paul Roark

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2017, 10:57:01 am »

I routinely use all sorts of inks in Epson printers.  Their piezo heads are wonderfully tolerant of the differences that may occur among the inks (unlike thermal heads).  I simply will not buy an Epson for which there are not good empty, refillable cartridges.

Because I specialize in black and white photography, I use dedicated B&W inksets in many of those printers.  See, for example http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf (though I now standardize on the stronger toner as described in http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf).  The "Eboni" variable tone B&W inksets are for matte only and the most economical due to the generic dilution base that is or can be used for making it.  For glossy (and matte) B&W, this is the current approach I use: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf .

For color, I am currently using bulk Epson/Noritsu color dyes.  I have reverse engineered a dilution base so that the dyes can be used in any Epson printer -- great color, no bronzing or gloss differential.  I used this color dye in an Epson 4000 for years with outstanding results, but, of course, even the best dyes are not in the archival league with OEM color pigments. 

MIS Associates -- aka, InkSupply.com -- has commercialized some of my open source formulas, including the generic dilution bases.  See https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm.  I receive no royalties and have no ties to MIS.  I allow them to use my name only if they have only those things on that page that I've formulated or tested as being compatible with my workflows.  The point is to get as much competition as possible to the field.  The formulas for the generic bases are listed right be the products as well as on my web pages.

While I use third part carbon for B&W (carbon is by far the most lightfast pigment), I "tone" or cool this naturally warm ink with a light blue toner that is composed of Canon color pigments.  For the most lightfast color, stay with the OEMs.  The resulting neutral B&W prints beat the silver print in my fade testing.  (But, honestly, most of this is just the paper base.  Silver and carbon are both very solid.)

The point is that the Epson printers are wonderfully flexible machines.  It's too bad the enforcement of our US antitrust laws has been so weak in this country as to, as a practical matter, allow the printer companies to "tie" the ink sales to the printer sales.  Europe is more inclined to enforce the laws against such tying.  (I am a former antitrust law enforcer.)

The bottom line for me is that I have no interest in any Epson printer that locks me out of the wonderful world of open inksets.  On the other hand, my 7800, 9800, 1430, and 1100 hum away with totally reliable B&W and great Noritsu (Epson Claria) inks in them.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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jpegman

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2017, 12:18:50 pm »

I wish ink cost less too, but IMO it's really not worth getting too excited about. I'm using a P7000. The area of a 20x30 inch print is 4.17 square feet and takes about 5.42 ml of ink. The typical price for a 350 ml ink Epson ink cartridge for my printer is $0.40 per ml, so the price of ink is about $2.17 for the print. If I save 65% using third party ink it means I'll save $1.41 on each 20x30 inch print. Likewise I'll save $0.58 on a 16x20 inch print and $0.27 on an 11x14.

If you are running a high volume production shop the savings could add up and be worthwhile. Such shops usually work on small margins and the 3rd party inks could make a difference in the bottom line. For a low volume print maker like me there is not enough to be saved to justify the effort and potential unforeseen problems with unknown inks. For instance, if your printer is under warranty using 3rd party ink will void the warranty. No manufacturer will stand behind a product made by someone else. In my case a 6% savings on frame moldings would save me more money than than getting free ink. A 3% savings on frame moldings would save more money than using the 3rd party inks. Efforts to save money are better spent on the high cost items where saving a couple percent means a lot. OEM ink cost amounts to only a few tenths of a percent of the price of a finished framed and matted print.

I don't know where you got your 65% saving  because that is greatly understated!  My Epson R2880 with Epson OEM inks is (B&H)$113 for 102ml; Jon Cone (probably the most expensive (and best) 3rd party inks is $182 for 990ml, PrecisionColors Pigment Ink is $135 for 990ml. This breaks down to Jon Cone is 16% of Epson (84% saving) and PC is 12% (88% saving) of Epson. A far cry from 65% you quoted. Now add in the head cleanings, and reprints etc that occur with all inks (OEM or not) and one quickly sees the BIG advantage 3rd party inks offer over OEM.
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mearussi

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2017, 01:19:56 pm »

I don't know where you got your 65% saving  because that is greatly understated!  My Epson R2880 with Epson OEM inks is (B&H)$113 for 102ml; Jon Cone (probably the most expensive (and best) 3rd party inks is $182 for 990ml, PrecisionColors Pigment Ink is $135 for 990ml. This breaks down to Jon Cone is 16% of Epson (84% saving) and PC is 12% (88% saving) of Epson. A far cry from 65% you quoted. Now add in the head cleanings, and reprints etc that occur with all inks (OEM or not) and one quickly sees the BIG advantage 3rd party inks offer over OEM.
Depends on your printer. For instance in my 4800, 7800, 9600 and 9900 I've used outdated Epson OEM inks for years (which I buy off of eBay) without problems. Because they come in such large cartridges (220ml for the first three and up to 700ml for the 9900) I never pay more than 25 cents per ml for the 220 ml size and as low as 13 cents/ml for the 700ml for the 9900.

Doing this gives me the longevity of OEM and the price of 3rd party.
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DeanChriss

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2017, 01:50:48 pm »

I don't know where you got your 65% saving  because that is greatly understated!  My Epson R2880 with Epson OEM inks is (B&H)$113 for 102ml; Jon Cone (probably the most expensive (and best) 3rd party inks is $182 for 990ml, PrecisionColors Pigment Ink is $135 for 990ml. This breaks down to Jon Cone is 16% of Epson (84% saving) and PC is 12% (88% saving) of Epson. A far cry from 65% you quoted. Now add in the head cleanings, and reprints etc that occur with all inks (OEM or not) and one quickly sees the BIG advantage 3rd party inks offer over OEM.

I clearly stated that I'm using an Epson P7000 and unless I made a math error somewhere my numbers were actually overstated in favor of the 3rd party ink, not understated.

Epson ink at B&H is $85 for 150ml ($0.57 per ml), $140 for 350ml ($0.40 per ml) and $235 for 700ml ($0.34 per ml). The Precision Color ink you mention is $0.18 per ml. That means the 3rd party ink saves 69% of the OEM ink cost in 150ml cartridges, 55% in 350ml cartridges, and 47% in 700ml cartridges. The last (47% savings) is the most fair comparison since you're talking about 990ml of Precision Color ink.

One also has to be careful about buying large quantities of ink, since it has a shelf life.
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DeanChriss

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2017, 02:11:20 pm »

You need to also take into account the wasted inks for automated purging and doing nozzle checks etc... That can easily double your ink costs.

I don't know how much the waste tanks on my printers hold, but in 7.5 years I used only 3 waste tanks on my old 7900. If 50% of the ink went into that tank I would have used WAY more than 3 of them. I used literally piles of ink cartridges over its lifetime. That printer did need to be cleaned fairly often and it *seems* like lots of ink is being used because it takes a while to clean, but in reality it can't be that much. The P7000 is too new to judge but it has only cleaned 3 times in 9 months. That simply can't represent 50% of all the ink I've used. I'm not counting the roughly half of the 110ml "starter cartridges" supplied with the printer that get used up filling the lines during printer initialization.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 02:33:22 pm by DeanChriss »
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donbga

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2017, 07:12:55 pm »

And if, as in my case, your printing needs are infrequent, the doubling you suggest might be quadrupled or greater.

That's the rub with these things that leads me to want a less-costly ink source: every time I start the printer it uses a percentage of every cartridge merely to get things going rather than actually provide output.

Clearly the more one prints the more likely it is printer manufacturers are inclined to 'lock out' third-party ink use. With print-for-pay, cost of supplies will be passed on to their customers where with more modest needs an individual or hobbyist bears the full expense.

Anyone know offhand what the volume is on StylusPhoto2200 cartridges? I looked around last night, came up clueless. @ 26ml the P600's cost more than double so I'd hazard a guess the 2200's are something in the 10-13ml range?

Take a look here for Epson 2200 carts and inks:

Precision Color

Precision Color sells quality after market products and has excellent service.

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spclark

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Re: OEM Inks vs. Marrutt (or others?)
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2017, 10:09:29 pm »

Take a look here for Epson 2200 carts and inks:

Precision Color

Um, thanks for the link... but as I've 'retired' my SP2200 in favor of a newly-operational P600 just this week, it's that product line I have more interest in.

Again I have to thanks the contributors to this thread for their posts here. I've learned a great deal both about inkjet technology as well as answers to my initial post's inquiry.

Before I add that 2200 to a bunch of other electronics destined for recycling, if there's life left in it for someone willing to take on fixing what's wrong with it (started printing full-width, full-open ink onto paper that came out soaking wet) I'd be willing to pack it up & ship it to them for the cost of shipping alone. Maybe the fix isn't particularly difficult or too costly, and it could serve as a dedicated B&W printer or some such?

'Course there's always eBay I suppose....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 07:59:03 pm by spclark »
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