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Author Topic: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio  (Read 2166 times)

TommyWeir

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 04:28:43 AM »

Thanks MJ again.  I saw that Hanemuehle had in their info leaflet a suggestion that once you've printed a side, and it's time to print the other (I'll wait and spray for sure before, thank you) you feed their Duo with a second sheet underneath to prevent roller marks and strikes on the already printed side.

In my tests I've done two coats of the artists varnish, smells okay, and spaced out the spraying.  I'm impressed with the results, it certainly aids the scuffing issue.

David Edge

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 01:08:31 PM »

I'm doing a sewn book and after a suitable warmtone duo paper circa 190gsm. The look I want is Pinnacle Antique Fine Art 210, but that's single-sided. It isn't slightly warm - cream perhaps. The Moab Entrada sounds like a good candidate, but not available in the UK as far as I can see. It looks as if it's going to have to be the Hahnemühle Photo Rag Duo 210 - but can anybody suggest anything warmer still?

David Edge
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TommyWeir

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 04:54:26 AM »

MarkFarber

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2017, 04:36:19 PM »

Mark, At your suggestion/request, I've carefully reviewed your pano-album-tin box review of Hahn value added products.  The procedure you describe for the Hahn album works exactly the same with the Moab 13x12 (similarly, 12" square visible page with 1" punched border).  The dimensions of Moab's pre-punched 9x8 (8" square with 1" punched border) requires the same procedure with appropriately adjusted dimensions.  See https://www.moabpaper.com/chinle for Moab's three offerings.  B&H carries all, though some are special order.  Of the three finishes--Entrada Natural, Entrada Bright, Lasal Matte--I prefer the Lasal because it's whiter, smoother, deeper black, and better contrast and detail, but that's personal preference.  While Lasal has OBAs, remember that these pages rarely see direct sun.

I use these papers primarily to make books with a modified screwpost construction but with custom covers that I also print and coat.  See attachments.  I make books from 5.5H7.75W to 13H15W, where I cut, hinge, and punch the sheets.  But the procedure is conceptually the same as what you described.

By the way, I was intrigued by the 5mm error in your pano example.  "You will notice that the photo has about 5mm shorter width than called for. I don’t know how or why Lightroom did this."  Since I do a lot of printing on custom pages, including panos, I reproduced your example.  Your error was mis-entering the cell size.  Up above, you correctly calculate 568.6x184.6mm, but then you enter 565.8x181.9mm.  My preferred approach is to enter the desired margins (12.7 instead of 0), maximize cell height and width, and check Zoom to Fill, which takes out any fraction-of-an-inch miscalculation and gives the precise desired aspect ratio.

On another topic (I'll go back to the other threads), I'm anxiously awaiting your review of the Epson P5000, which I'm considering to replace my 3880.  Your and others' descriptions of the quirks of loading the P800 with fine art sheets is off-putting.  I enjoy your posts--thank you.
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stockjock

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2017, 12:25:35 AM »

Mark, At your suggestion/request, I've carefully reviewed your pano-album-tin box review of Hahn value added products.  The procedure you describe for the Hahn album works exactly the same with the Moab 13x12 (similarly, 12" square visible page with 1" punched border).  The dimensions of Moab's pre-punched 9x8 (8" square with 1" punched border) requires the same procedure with appropriately adjusted dimensions.  See https://www.moabpaper.com/chinle for Moab's three offerings.  B&H carries all, though some are special order.  Of the three finishes--Entrada Natural, Entrada Bright, Lasal Matte--I prefer the Lasal because it's whiter, smoother, deeper black, and better contrast and detail, but that's personal preference.  While Lasal has OBAs, remember that these pages rarely see direct sun.

I use these papers primarily to make books with a modified screwpost construction but with custom covers that I also print and coat.  See attachments.  I make books from 5.5H7.75W to 13H15W, where I cut, hinge, and punch the sheets.  But the procedure is conceptually the same as what you described.


Hi Mark,

I wonder if you could talk a little more about how you made the covers for your photo book?

Also, how do you like the Moab Lasal Matte paper?  Does it compare well to more expensive matte papers like the Canson Rag Photographique or Epson Legacy Rag?

I am trying to find a photo book option for higher print quality than Blurb offers and hopefully at a lower price.  I'm willing to tradeoff the presentability/first impression of the book for more utility and lower costs.  I've thought of screw post bound books but I'm actually leaning toward plastic comb or wire spiral bound books.  They are easy to assemble, lay flat, you can use very high quality papers, and except for the initial cost of the binding machine they are relatively inexpensive.  The tradeoff is they aren't a particularly elegant presentation.  I've just ordered some covers that will let me experiment with 11x14" books.

Thanks,

Paul
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TommyWeir

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 07:09:54 AM »

I would value hearing about that too.

The Moab video on assembly - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rrhNDOxtNo  I presume you have a different source for the covers?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 07:18:51 AM by TommyWeir »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2017, 08:14:00 AM »

Mark, At your suggestion/request, I've carefully reviewed your pano-album-tin box review of Hahn value added products.  The procedure you describe for the Hahn album works exactly the same with the Moab 13x12 (similarly, 12" square visible page with 1" punched border).  The dimensions of Moab's pre-punched 9x8 (8" square with 1" punched border) requires the same procedure with appropriately adjusted dimensions.  See https://www.moabpaper.com/chinle for Moab's three offerings.  B&H carries all, though some are special order.  Of the three finishes--Entrada Natural, Entrada Bright, Lasal Matte--I prefer the Lasal because it's whiter, smoother, deeper black, and better contrast and detail, but that's personal preference.  While Lasal has OBAs, remember that these pages rarely see direct sun.

I use these papers primarily to make books with a modified screwpost construction but with custom covers that I also print and coat.  See attachments.  I make books from 5.5H7.75W to 13H15W, where I cut, hinge, and punch the sheets.  But the procedure is conceptually the same as what you described.

By the way, I was intrigued by the 5mm error in your pano example.  "You will notice that the photo has about 5mm shorter width than called for. I don’t know how or why Lightroom did this."  Since I do a lot of printing on custom pages, including panos, I reproduced your example.  Your error was mis-entering the cell size.  Up above, you correctly calculate 568.6x184.6mm, but then you enter 565.8x181.9mm.  My preferred approach is to enter the desired margins (12.7 instead of 0), maximize cell height and width, and check Zoom to Fill, which takes out any fraction-of-an-inch miscalculation and gives the precise desired aspect ratio.

On another topic (I'll go back to the other threads), I'm anxiously awaiting your review of the Epson P5000, which I'm considering to replace my 3880.  Your and others' descriptions of the quirks of loading the P800 with fine art sheets is off-putting.  I enjoy your posts--thank you.

Hi Mark,

Thanks ever so much for your report on the Moab materials. Those books you show are gorgeous. And thanks for the tips on truing-up the margins. To be remembered for the next time!
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

schertz

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2017, 10:47:54 AM »

MarkFarber: I would just like to repeat what others have said, your book binding is very impressive and I would be very interested in seeing how you put it together, if you have any leads or links to show us...  Just beautiful !

Mike
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David Edge

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 06:16:14 AM »

Answering my own question about a natural white duo, I called Paper Spectrum in Leicester (UK) and they can get to order a 220gsm double-sided version of the paper I wanted (Antique Fine Art 210) at a perfectly reasonable price. They say - as somebody said above of another paper - it is not identically smooth on both sides - but coated both sides. So three cheers for a local paper supplier.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 09:58:02 AM »

Answering my own question about a natural white duo, I called Paper Spectrum in Leicester (UK) and they can get to order a 220gsm double-sided version of the paper I wanted (Antique Fine Art 210) at a perfectly reasonable price. They say - as somebody said above of another paper - it is not identically smooth on both sides - but coated both sides. So three cheers for a local paper supplier.

An advice; Next to the PhotoRag Book and Album D.S. 220gsm 100% Cotton there is another (often relabeled) paper in that weight class 200-210-220 gsm either single side coated or dual side (sheets) coated. Slightly texturised compared to the PhotoRag B&A. It is an Alpha Cellulose based paper at best with an excellent coating and no or little OBA content. But in my experience some insects like to eat their way on it for unknown reasons, best guess; a starch in the coating. Have not seen other inkjet papers as tasty for insects so far.  Less expensive than the PhotoRag B&A dual sided. I have used it for posters and proof prints so no real harm done for me. Innovaart was the first with it here on the market; IFA024 and IFA025. Hahnemühle + Harman followed and so did others. My gut feeling is that Felix Schoeller is the manufacturer of the mammoth rolls. Attached is a screengrab of the spectral plots. Cyan one is the PhotoRag, the rest is that Felix Schoeller's product which probably is also the source of the alternative UK papers mentioned here on this thread page. I could  measure them to be sure but for that I need paper samples.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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David Edge

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Re: Paper suggestions for hand made book / folio
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2017, 03:56:26 AM »

Dank u wel Ernst

It seems highly likely that the paper that Paper Spectrum has sourced is the Schoeller. I think I will live with the insect risk for this project as that paper's good features really do suit the subject, but I will be warned for future work.

David
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