Hasselblad X1D - First Impressions

[Rdmax]

The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.

I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...

[Michael Erlewine]

The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.

I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...

It is not that slow; depends on what you are doing. I find it easy to use and no more painful than the D810, the A&RII, and so on. But then, I am used to the pain of careful setup, etc. As for the IQ, I find the color good and better than the D810... so far, but I am still learning. However, I like it, but it is not an FF DSLR. It is a small MF camera, with all that entails.

[Juanito]

The X1D is really slow and a pain to use, but the sensor is really good, even when compared to D810 and Otus.

I'm still thinking whether the IQ is worth the hassle...

Slow and a pain compared to what?

- Compared to MF film cameras? No. Manual focus and winding film is no speed walk session in the park.
- Compared to Hasselblad Hx series? Far from it. The H series is a slow-to-do-everything overweight brick by comparison.
- Compared to the D810? Yes, the X1D is slower to autofocus and shoot. But it's less bulky and actually lighter.
- Compared to every other MF system out there? I haven't tested nor used them all, but from what I've seen, the X1D is the speediest and lightest of the bunch.

Despite the X1D's quirks, I find it easier or at least easy to use than most DSLR's, albeit slower. It's a different sort of camera so it does take some getting used to. If you only pick up and use it for ten minutes at the camera store, you probably will find it awkward. I'd suggest using it for a full day before coming to conclusions on its usability.

Medium format in general is definitely slower and a pain compared to most small format systems. For most folks, the difference in IQ is probably not worth it relative to the price either. If you've got the cash and you want that last little bit of IQ, then it makes sense (maybe).

John

[pschefz]

i was really excited when the X1D was announced, i had just re-organized a lot of older files and was amazed how all my older DMF files from aptus, P20 and P40 backs (all with a variety of mama and rollei cameras) just popped out and just looked different then what i was getting with everything else (incl. my A7RII)....so i had just gone through that and was actually looking at the H6 (just for a short, very short moment) and then the X1D was announced and then the GFX....before switching to digital i almost exclusively shot fuji (680, 690, 645) and have always like their smaller digital cameras.....the size and in lens shutter steered me towards the X1D right away....until i tried it...maybe the problem is that compared to the H system it is fast? and the AF is usable? i mean the size and handling is amazing, i really liked the software...but AF is slow, slow, slow....being forced to move the AF point with the 2 wheels is idiotic....clearly an afterthought and a victim of making the camera small and simple....the worst to me was though that i shot the X1D with 45mm head to head with A7RII and 24-70 GM and i just did not see that much difference in the files....i understand we are splitting hair here anyway but it just did not give me that instant pop that i was even used to seeing with my old Phase files.....
so i benched that idea.....and then the GFX files started appearing....and i reluctantly started looking at them.....
long story short...i own the GFX now...i already figured out how to use my studio and location flash with HS (which was the first reason i did not even think about the fuji) and the AF, while not perfect or sony level is heads and shoulders above anything i have ever used in digital medium format....the body is clunky at first but man....it is nice to have all these dials and things right where you need them....and the software makes it a dream to set the camera up in any way possible....the lenses are maybe the best i have ever used....and just when i thought it could not get better i got the rotating finder attachment....best solution ever...ever...i have dreamed about this...i have used loupes attached to back screens of cameras.....this is just the way things should be....

i understand that this is the X1D thread and i understand that different people have different needs....i shoot people, most of them move around....i wish hasselblad would have put a AF selector nipple on he back (they probably do too)...i am surprised how much better i like the fuji glass over the hasselblad...the same goes for the files....i do understand that fuji is relying on software correction for the final files....but with results like these, i think everybody should....
the X1D with the 45...reminds me of the sony RX1RII (that 42mpix with fixed 35mm) but just the perfect size....and i would get that over any leica right now....but as a system the GFX just works much better for me....

[Michael Erlewine]

i was really excited when the X1D was announced, i had just re-organized a lot of older files and was amazed how all my older DMF files from aptus, P20 and P40 backs (all with a variety of mama and rollei cameras) just popped out and just looked different then what i was getting with everything else (incl. my A7RII)....so i had just gone through that and was actually looking at the H6 (just for a short, very short moment) and then the X1D was announced and then the GFX....before switching to digital i almost exclusively shot fuji (680, 690, 645) and have always like their smaller digital cameras.....the size and in lens shutter steered me towards the X1D right away....until i tried it...maybe the problem is that compared to the H system it is fast? and the AF is usable? i mean the size and handling is amazing, i really liked the software...but AF is slow, slow, slow....being forced to move the AF point with the 2 wheels is idiotic....clearly an afterthought and a victim of making the camera small and simple....the worst to me was though that i shot the X1D with 45mm head to head with A7RII and 24-70 GM and i just did not see that much difference in the files....i understand we are splitting hair here anyway but it just did not give me that instant pop that i was even used to seeing with my old Phase files.....
so i benched that idea.....and then the GFX files started appearing....and i reluctantly started looking at them.....
long story short...i own the GFX now...i already figured out how to use my studio and location flash with HS (which was the first reason i did not even think about the fuji) and the AF, while not perfect or sony level is heads and shoulders above anything i have ever used in digital medium format....the body is clunky at first but man....it is nice to have all these dials and things right where you need them....and the software makes it a dream to set the camera up in any way possible....the lenses are maybe the best i have ever used....and just when i thought it could not get better i got the rotating finder attachment....best solution ever...ever...i have dreamed about this...i have used loupes attached to back screens of cameras.....this is just the way things should be....

i understand that this is the X1D thread and i understand that different people have different needs....i shoot people, most of them move around....i wish hasselblad would have put a AF selector nipple on he back (they probably do too)...i am surprised how much better i like the fuji glass over the hasselblad...the same goes for the files....i do understand that fuji is relying on software correction for the final files....but with results like these, i think everybody should....
the X1D with the 45...reminds me of the sony RX1RII (that 42mpix with fixed 35mm) but just the perfect size....and i would get that over any leica right now....but as a system the GFX just works much better for me....

You are right. This post does not belong here.

[heinrichvoelkel]

You are right. This post does not belong here.

Why do you think so? The OP clearly states his experiences with the X1D and why he didn't like it.

[kers]

Why do you think so? The OP clearly states his experiences with the X1D and why he didn't like it.

+1
a typical case of first impressions...

[Christopher]

You are right. This post does not belong here.

I think it just shows how different impressions and needs are.


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[Juanito]

For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel.

John

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing!

Best regards
Erik

For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel.

John

[Michael Erlewine]

For what it's worth, my review of the X1D is up on Petapixel.

John

I enjoyed it and am also busy learning the X1D. I have never used flash (or... don't use it except for family photos), but I can see that the leaf shutters used outdoors in sunlight for fill flash could actually improve my work. I hate to be such a dummy, but can anyone tell me in a simple way how to best use fill-flash with the X1D outdoors for close-up nature photography... please and thank you. Michael

[Conner999]

Don't do macro, but, one option of many that won't have you getting in way of own light:

A used Profoto AcuteB and an Acute 2/D4 Ringflash. Cost next to nothing (now) thanks to newer TTL-ready units, dials-down low, small and light, batteries last a good while. Non-OEM SLA batteries are cheap as chips and re-celling older tired batteries takes 10 minutes w/a soldering gun.

Flash duration is not the fastest at HIGHER power, so at 1/2000 sync and HIGHER power you will lose some light (sync faster than duration), but the AcuteBs duration at lower levels is very fast and given will be close up, won't need much power. Can also be used while charging (lasts all day)

Can then just diffuse and/or use cinefoil as is and/or painted white on one side (to be able to shape) to block off parts of ring to get light from sides or top & bottom only, create some aide bounce, etc. If want even less light than minimum power allows, tape an ND gel on the RF to drop power by stop(s) desired.

Profoto also sells indirect reflectors in white and silver for say 'portait distances' and a close-up silver one that mount to the RF to create indirect fill (think a beauty dish for ringflash). RF makes a nice fill as light is 'there' but direction is often not discernable. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:



This may be typical of such a setup:



Best regards
Erik

I enjoyed it and am also busy learning the X1D. I have never used flash (or... don't use it except for family photos), but I can see that the leaf shutters used outdoors in sunlight for fill flash could actually improve my work. I hate to be such a dummy, but can anyone tell me in a simple way how to best use fill-flash with the X1D outdoors for close-up nature photography... please and thank you. Michael

[Michael Erlewine]

Hi Michael,

I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:



This may be typical of such a setup:
Best regards
Erik

Thanks. Is this with the X1D and how does this relate to learning to use leaf shutters and flash. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

It is about using flash outdoors. It is absolutely not about the X1D.

I have been shooting both my Hasselblad 555/ELD and the Sony A7rII with this kind of setup. The Sony is limited to something like 1/160s with the setup I have. On the Hassy I can go to 1/500s and sometimes it is an advantage.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Michael,

I often use a small portable flash with a small umbrella for shooting flowers outside. This may be a typical sample:



This may be typical of such a setup:



Best regards
Erik

[Michael Erlewine]

Hi Michael,

It is about using flash outdoors. It is absolutely not about the X1D.

I have been shooting both my Hasselblad 555/ELD and the Sony A7rII with this kind of setup. The Sony is limited to something like 1/160s with the setup I have. On the Hassy I can go to 1/500s and sometimes it is an advantage.

Best regards
Erik

I am trying to understand the "advantage" of leaf shutters now that I have some. And just how are they used. This may be too much for this thread, and perhaps someone has written a tutorial on close-up, outdoors, sunshine, and leaf shutters. I am so ignorant in this regard. Thanks for bearing with me.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

Leaf shutters allow to change the balance beween flash light and the surround. Electronic flash can deliver very intense light with very short duration. Leaf shutter expose the while sensor within a short duration. So, a flash may put all it's power on the sensor while the leaf shutter is fully open.

Focal Plane shutters are only fully open at X-shutter sync time. Any shorter time results in partial exposure or wasted power. So, shooting outdoors leaf shutters have some advantage, especially if you want to overpower the sun and let artificial light to dominate. Would you ever want that? Good question!

With fill light it is a bit different. In that case we would let natural light dominate but fill in shadow detail. That may not need all available power from the flash.

Best regards
Erik

I am trying to understand the "advantage" of leaf shutters now that I have some. And just how are they used. This may be too much for this thread, and perhaps someone has written a tutorial on close-up, outdoors, sunshine, and leaf shutters. I am so ignorant in this regard. Thanks for bearing with me.

[EricV]

Sorry if this is just stating the obvious, but maybe a short recap of the theory is worthwhile:

• Flash is so fast that flash exposure (fill light) does not depend on shutter speed
• Set lens aperture to get desired fill light, according to flash strength and distance
• Then set shutter speed to get desired main light, according to ambient illumination level
• If you want flash to overpower sunlight, fast shutter speed is helpful or necessary

[BernardLanguillier]

Sorry if this is just stating the obvious, but maybe a short recap of the theory is worthwhile:

• Flash is so fast that flash exposure (fill light) does not depend on shutter speed
• Set lens aperture to get desired fill light, according to flash strength and distance
• Then set shutter speed to get desired main light, according to ambient illumination level
• If you want flash to overpower sunlight, fast shutter speed is helpful or necessary

Good summary.

We could discuss the first point a bit at the high power outputs, but it doesn't change the basic philosophy (it just makes the actual usefulness of 1/2000s sync speed a bit more questionable since even a Profoto Pro-10 has a flash duration of 1/1000 sec at full power, meaning that max power won't be achivable).

Cheers,
Bernard

[pschefz]

i would just like to add here that HSS (high speed sync) works amazingly well these days...which means all focal plane shutters can be used with pretty much any shutter speed the camera is capable of.....most systems use pulsating strobe which means that the GN (or the power output) of the flash gets lower the higher the shutter speed....
broncolor uses a different way...they can it HS (hyper sync) and they go the other way, the pack actually produces a longer flash duration and just times the shutter to open and close when the output (which is on a curve) is highest.....this way eats a lot of power but the flash color stays more consistent.....there is still a chance of a top to bottom (or side to side) gradation because of sensor readout.....
of course in lens shutters don't have any of these issues.....just set the exposure and shoot....
there is some information out of how the in lens shutters of the X1D lenses impact the bokeh? or at least OOF highlights?
i read over that article and looked at the samples provided....i am surprised because i have shot with in lens shutters for years (all large format lenses obviously have them) but i have never noticed this with any other system?
either way....once we get all digital global shutters none of this should be an issue regardless....